Ep 24. How to tap into employee creativity and innovation.

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 24: Angela Ferguson, Managing Director of FutureSpace

Caroline Kennedy (00:20)
Welcome and thanks to our listeners for joining us today. My guest is Angela Ferguson. Angela is the MD of leading interior and architectural workplace design firm, FutureSpace. As a woman in a male-dominated industry, Angela is creating pathways for other women to set up and achieve success. She is also focused on developing the next generation of workplace designers helping them develop the skills and confidence to make it in a tough industry. FutureSpace works with some of the world's top companies including American Express, Microsoft, Qantas and Google. In the past year alone, FutureSpace has worked with PwC, EA Games, KPMG, REA Group, Myob and Magellan to name a few.

Welcome to the show Angela. Tell us about Future Space.

Angela Ferguson (01:20)
Thanks, Caroline.

So Future Space, we are an architectural and interior design practice. We focus on creating physical environments that make a real difference in people's lives. So every one of us is either an interior designer or an architect by choice. We're not architects and designers because we couldn't get into law or medicine or anything like that. And we all believe that people are the product of their environment. So everything we do is geared towards creating spaces that improve people's lives.

Caroline Kennedy (01:58)
And describe your design philosophy.

Angela Ferguson (02:01)
Yeah, so my design philosophy is really related to that. The reason I became a designer was because I'd seen, actually I'd seen offices, I'd seen other people's offices around town and I'd done work experience in an office and I thought, God, is this sort of where people work? Are these the types of spaces that people work in? And so I really wanted to be able to kind of have some control over the environment that I was potentially going to be working in sort of five to 10 years time. And so I thought if I could help other people as well, thought becoming an interior designer wouldn't allow me to create spaces that were a lot more human and really gave people a good place to be at work because we do spend so much time at work.

Caroline Kennedy (02:49)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the way we function at work, particularly nowadays, has completely changed. And future space and your designs are disrupting the nature of work, allowing people to work more productively, collaboratively and cohesively. What was the catalyst for the change in environment and design?

Angela Ferguson (03:11)
We've always designed workspaces that are about improving people's lives at work. But I think it's only recently that the understanding of, you know, there's sort of general public understanding of that and business's understanding of that has really caught up to the type of work that we've been doing for a long time. So if you think about, you know, our working week in Australia, we have one of the longest working weeks in the world. We have 65 % of Australians work more than 40 hours a week.

And of that 65%, about a third of those work more than 50 hours a week. So people are working really long hours. And for us, it's so important to design spaces that, workspaces that are centered around the human being and give people a lot of choice and a lot of flexibility in the way that they work.

Caroline Kennedy (04:00)
Yeah, and through your designs, you are influencing how modern businesses operate, the work behaviours and how businesses can tap into employees' creativity and innovation. So tell us a little bit about that.

Angela Ferguson (04:15)
Yeah, I think so whenever we talk about workplace design, we talk about these three sort of tenets of people, place and technology. So obviously we take care of the place side of things because it's focused on people. But the technology, I think, has really allowed us to design workspaces that are unlike anything we've ever seen before. if you think about the way technology has evolved from really from the, you know, when the first personal computer was launched in the early eighties and how that really started to change the way that people thought about work and they thought about education.

And if you think of even just the way technology has advanced in the last five years and the way that we can do anything at anywhere, you know, at any time in any place in the world, it means that the whole meaning of the workplace has changed. So you don't have to go to a place to do a thing anymore. You can do that thing anywhere. So what we try and do with the types of workplaces we design is design spaces that have some sort of meaning for that business and that organisation.

Caroline Kennedy (05:30)
Yeah, okay. And I think that when you talk about how you design, it also leads to a lot of people are working remotely nowadays as well. As you just said, it doesn't matter where you are being able to work. So that would also have an influence on, I would say, the space within an organisation, how much space they actually need nowadays as well.

Angela Ferguson (05:55)
Yeah, definitely. And also what that space, what it's made up of. we did a lot of work with Microsoft over the last few years. so Pip Marlow, who's the MD of Microsoft, she's been very vocal about the workplace and their workplace. And she says that workplace is a thing that you do, not a place that you go. So therefore you think, well, why does Microsoft need a workplace? But the reason they need a workplace is for people to come together.

So the way that their workplace is made up is very different to say what it would have been 10 or 15 years ago. So they do need less space, but the type of space they need to is very different. They need spaces where people could come together, where they can collaborate, where they can share sort of face-to-face information and share knowledge that way. So the technology is so great. It means they can work anywhere at any time, but the workplace that they come to, you know, has a lot of meaning for them.

Caroline Kennedy (06:54)
Yeah, and I think meaning is a good word to use when we think about the workplaces that are really focusing on productivity and culture as well within businesses, because it's not just about here's your desk, get on with your job. It's about creating a good culture and a collaborative environment where everyone's buying into. We're all working together to achieve X, Y and Z, whatever it may be.

Now I've heard the term alternative work strategies defining your work. Can you tell us about that?

Angela Ferguson (07:32)
Yeah, so really what that term means is it's really just about recognising that every organisation works in a very different way. They have different cultures, have different, you know, whether they're a service-based or a product-based organisation, they want to achieve different things, they have different business plans. So what we try and do is come up with an alternative work strategy, which is an alternative to the way they have perhaps been doing things in the past that is really aligned with the business and their performance and their people and their culture and some of the things they want to achieve.

There's no real cookie cutter approach to designing a workspace. lot of what we do, we spend a lot of time understanding a business and a lot of time understanding, you know, that kind of their brand and their personality and then designing a workplace that's going to be really supportive of who they are as an organisation. that's where that alternative work strategies comes into it because it's an alternative to perhaps what they've been doing in the past and the physical space hasn't caught up with the innovation or some of the disruption happening in the industry or some of the leadership that they want to demonstrate.

Caroline Kennedy (08:46)
And out of interest, how do you go about understanding the brand and really understanding the people within an organisation to be able to come up with the designs?

Angela Ferguson (08:56)
Yeah, we do a lot of work around, it's a lot of listening really. We have a number of different things that we do and that we might go in, for example, on a Friday night or a Thursday afternoon or even at lunchtime to a brown bag presentation and we'll do a presentation to like a town hall situation, so a big group of staff and say to them and show them this is what's happening in workplaces around the world.

And this is what's happening in Australia and Australia really does lead the way in workplace design. And so we'll give them some information on a large scale and then we might spend some time talking to different groups within the business and talking to them about, you know, perhaps some of the frustrations they may have, some of the things that work well, some of the things that don't work well. So we can spend, you know, anywhere between sort of, you know, four weeks and three months talking to an organisation to really understand them and understand what their challenges are and then use that information to address some of their issues and then help them achieve some of their goals and design something that's for them.

Caroline Kennedy (10:05)
Yeah, well it sounds like you really spend the time and it's part of the fundamentals of really understanding them so that you can deliver that solution that works for everybody. Yeah, now I've also heard your work, you know, about activity-based workplaces. So tell us about that.

Angela Ferguson (10:18)
Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, so an activity based workplace is about, if you think about the way perhaps, you know, the nineties as a graduate, when people, well, this is sort of my era, but as a graduate in the nineties, I came out of university and I started working in a design practice and I was shown my desk and that was my desk. And that's where I spent the greater part of my day, unless

I went out to a building site or went and did something else outside of the office. Activity based working is about people being able to come to work and deciding that, okay, today what I need to do is something really quiet and really focused. I've got a lot of reading to do today and a big report to read. So what I'll do is I'll go and take one of those really quiet spaces. Maybe it's a small one or two person room and I'll go and take that room and I'll use that room for the three or four hours that I need to be able to do that piece of work. And then after that, I might be sitting in a training session or a meeting in the afternoon. So I can go and choose to work in a different part of the building.

What I wanted to say about activity-based working is the reason that it's come about is because we do surveys. So we do occupancy surveys of workplaces and how often different settings are used. So we might been a week surveying, physically surveying an office to see how often the meeting rooms are used, how often each desk individually is used, to see how often the common spaces are used. And what our research tells us on a consistent basis is that the office is vacant between 40 and 60 percent of the time. So an organisation is paying rent and heating and cooling this space between 40 and 60 percent of time is not being used.

So activity-based working is about providing a really kind of lean, agile environment that is high energy, has a lot of choice, has a lot of variety. And it's an environment that's designed around need rather than just hope that it gets used well.

Caroline Kennedy (12:38)
Yeah. And I think that also the variety of what you've just described would lead to more innovation as well because you're thinking differently in different environments and you're not just sat at a desk all day every day without being exposed to different elements.

Angela Ferguson (12:58)
Yeah, that's right. you kind of, you know, all the research has shown that a different type of environment promotes a different way of thinking and you use a different part of your brain because you're turning on different neural pathways when you change spaces. So we've worked with clients, particularly MYB actually in Melbourne, who moved all of their software engineers and developers out of the head office into a warehouse space because they wanted to drive innovation.

And they thought and they knew that if they moved the software engineers and developers into this really dynamic warehouse environment, it would really help with that energy and creating new things and designing sort of innovation into their practices.

Caroline Kennedy (13:44)
The stimulation that would occur. Now culture is a critical element for any business and more businesses are beginning to recognise and focus on culture as a performance enhancer. How are you seeing workspace design impact and influence culture?

Angela Ferguson (13:47)
Exactly. Yeah, so the way workplace design impacts and influences culture is really around designing things and elements into the environment that's going to promote the good behaviours and the good relationships that people want to promote. for example with MYB we actually included in the cafe we've got a table tennis table, we've got an old arcade game, there's a few different things that people can do to kind of interact and engage with each other and maybe have some conversations or some healthy competition with people they may not normally talk to. And so they're using these types of, you know, fun elements in the games to create relationships. And if you can create these new relationships within the business, then you can potentially create new products and new services. And again, it leads to innovation.

Culture is a massive part of work because again, you it's like, you've probably heard the phrase, you know, I've got a work husband and a work wife and work family. And, you know, we are spending a lot of time at work. So the culture and, you know, having people feel like they belong to something, I think is such an important part of workplace design.

Caroline Kennedy (15:21)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think culture nowadays has been recognised, as I mentioned before, as an enhancer for performance, but also the environment you work in is as important and as part of the process, I think.

Angela Ferguson (15:37)
And it has to be appropriate too. So for example, you wouldn't say put a table, tennis table into a very formal banking environment or do you know what mean? has to kind of, a lot of clients actually come to us and they say, we want to be like Google. And I will always say to them, listen, you're not Google. You are your own unique brand and identity. And I think whatever we have to do in your workplace has got to be aligned with you and your culture and the types of permissions that you have around these sorts of engagements and activities. So authenticity is a big part of that cultural piece as well.

Caroline Kennedy (16:15)
Absolutely.

And I find it quite interesting that you said before about not putting a table tennis into a formal banking environment. Well, perhaps that's what they need to be relevant. Do you know what I mean? Like never say never, I think, because relevance is so important as well, because as we evolve and as workplaces evolve and the market evolves, you've got to look at how you can remain relevant. And there are so many elements to that as well.

Angela Ferguson (16:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (16:46)
Now, congratulations, you were the recipient of the NAWIC 2012 New South Wales Women in Construction Businesswoman of the Year Award for your holistic approach to the management of future space. So tell us a little bit about what that meant to you and I suppose the impact that it had.

Angela Ferguson (17:08)
Yeah, I think for me it's an interesting one actually because my husband is my business partner and he will often, because I do enter awards and he will say, why do you do this? You it's like, you know, you do a good job. It's like, yeah, I do know I do a good job, but I think sort of being female in a pretty blokey industry. And I know I'm not alone here. I think we're in a position where women need to we do really need to kind of shout out about our achievements and we do need to speak up a lot more often.

So for me, kind of winning that award and getting the acknowledgement that, you know, I'm one of the few women running architectural and interior design businesses in Australia and, you know, bringing that sort of to the public's attention. I think that was really important for, not only for me, but also to be able to you know, say to the industry, look, you there are some women doing some amazing things here and that awards program, that NAWIC awards program does a really good job of doing that.

Caroline Kennedy (18:13)
Yeah. And I think on the flip side of that as well is demonstrating that it is possible for other women to enter male dominated industries because I know, I mean, I ran a building company and a large franchise building company, so construction. And initially, you know, people would say, but you're a female. And actually I found the environment to be one very open to, I suppose. gender, no matter what your gender is, it's about getting the job done. We can stereotype the industries that we go into because it is deemed challenging to go into a male dominated industry, yet so many females are actually doing it and doing it very well. So I think it's important to be able to say, can do it too. It is possible and inspire other women.

Angela Ferguson (19:08)
Yeah, that's exactly right.

Caroline Kennedy (19:10)
what you are doing, so good on you. Now you run a mentoring program to educate and upskill the junior staff within FutureSpace. Tell us a little bit about that.

Angela Ferguson (19:21)
Well, this is something I'm really, really passionate about actually, because what I've seen happen in our industry over the last five to 10 years is that graduates will come out of university and they will start their new job and nobody spends any time with them. So the other people that they're working with, the more senior people in the organisation aren't teaching them things, they're not sharing knowledge. And we're sort of getting come to us who've been out for sort of two or three years.

And some of the basic skills that I would expect that they have, because they have had some work experience they don't have. And I've been really lucky in my career in that my first job, I had a lot of on the job training and my boss was really hardcore and he was really hard on me, but I learnt a lot. And then my next job after that, I had a really great mentor. So I've had a lot of people teach me along the way.

And I've seen a lot of, I've seen that not happen as much anymore in our industry. And I think it's because we're so busy, know, technology has placed more demands on what we do. And so there's not a lot of that sharing of knowledge and information. I really feel like the quality of the industry as a whole is degrading. So for me, what we've done is we started beginning of this year, a mentoring program where we had the six most senior people in the business do a six week stint with the probably 12 youngest people in the business and newest people in the business, do a six week stint for an hour a week on their specific topic of expertise. And so because the six most senior people in the business all got very different bents and very different focuses, they've been able to share this amazing kind of knowledge with our junior and mid-level staff.

And it's actually been a really incredible thing to watch. So I've seen them talk about this to their peers outside of our office. we've had some of the juniors say to us that their mates who are working at similar level to them are all really jealous that they don't have this mentoring program that we do. The other thing I think that's really important about the mentoring program is we kick off with a little bit of our own backgrounds and histories so the staff can see that you I didn't just kind of appear in my managing director job. I actually worked really hard to get where I am today. And, you know, I've got a lot of sort of experience and hard yards behind me to be able to get to where I am. So it's always helpful for them, I think, to see you in context.

The mentoring program is going really well and what we're now starting to do is more coaching too within the business. So I am in the new year, myself and one of the other senior women are taking a couple of smaller groups of other women and doing weekly sessions, more coaching sessions with them. And it's a little bit this sort of behind closed doors type notion where it's what happens in the room stays in the room. And so it's really just about bringing the other people in the business and they are predominantly women, but bringing the other people in the business up and teaching them and sharing our knowledge and sharing our skills and you know kind of being able to give something back to the industry to create a better industry as a whole.

Caroline Kennedy (22:46)
And I think investing in and developing your teams is such a critical aspect of workplace nowadays more so, but it's also, you know, creating the culture, investing in people's success, so setting people up for success. And what I hear is that, you know, you really value your teams and you're saying, as a leader, I recognise that I have a responsibility to these people and to help them develop and grow and continue to, I suppose, educate them as well, because you're right, nobody ever got to a CEO or a managing director in an executive role straight away out of university. It takes time and it also takes people to help you along the way. mean, as you said, you've had many people help you. I've had many people help me as well.

A lot of businesses fail to recognise that though and so good on you because I can imagine that the people within your business are grateful for the opportunities as well and then you get longevity and you also get, they're more aligned to the business as well.

Angela Ferguson (24:00)
Yep, definitely. And the other thing too is like the type of work we do is we're not just picking colors and, you know, throwing cushions around. It's actually really, you know, we're trusted with, you know, big, massive property decisions, big, massive budgets. And, you know, we need to be able to do this stuff well, not just kind of, you know, we're not flitting around, you know, picking colors and, and you're making things look pretty. There's kind of a bigger story to it than that. So I need my staff to be really.

I guess indoctrinated into that and really kind of educated about the types of things that they do and the types of design decisions that they make.

Caroline Kennedy (24:37)
Yeah. And it's part of the process for succession planning as well, isn't it? You know, moving people and developing them through the ranks and making sure that they have the skill and the ability to meet the expectations of you as an organisation, but also as for the client as well. Yeah. Now, what are the biggest lessons you've learnt in business?

Angela Ferguson (25:00)
Biggest lessons I've learnt in business. I think the biggest one for me most recently has been around, and recently I mean in the last few years, has really been around authenticity. I had my own business before. So Stephen Manette is my husband and he and I own FutureSpace together. so October 09 is when I merged my business with Stephen's business.

And when I did that, thought, because I had this sort of, know, much smaller business that was, you know, very creative. It was still very professional because it was just me. I didn't feel like I had to kind of conform to anybody or anything. And so I just kind of followed my own path and made my own decisions and it did really well. It was very successful. And I joined my business with FutureSpace because Stephen and I obviously have similar connections and we're no similar people. It was getting really hard to explain why they were separate and we were just more more aligned and on the same path. But when I did merge, I thought, oh, well now I'm part of this much bigger thing and I'm gonna have to be a I'm gonna have to be a grown up and kind of be more corporate and more, I don't know, I'm part of this big thing now, I've just sort got to be different.

And I thought I had to be different than who I was. And it kind of took me a couple of years to really figure out that that wasn't the case. And I could still be myself and kind of be confident being myself. yeah, so that kind of, that was a big lesson for me around, you know, being authentic and not trying to be all things to all people and just following kind of organically, I guess, what was true for me and what was right for me. And since I've done that, think our business has just grown from strength to strength. We've had an amazing few years. last two years, two and a half years, we've achieved some incredible things. So that lesson, think, around authenticity is one that has made such an impact in my career and my life.

Caroline Kennedy (27:15)
Yeah, that's definitely a good one. think, you know, I write a lot about because I'm exposed to people that say they wear masks when they go to work. And certainly it's something that I have had experience doing as well. you know, you think that this is expectation that you need to conform to be X, Y and Z. So, know, in corporate, you need to be and you need to be tough and if you want to make it as a female. But what I came to realise is that you lose yourself and there is a mask, but when you step into being the authentic you and bringing your heart, you have such a bigger impact. And I think a lot of businesses could learn from that. And certainly our listeners, you know, have a lot of the small businesses. And I think just being you is really true because people want to work with and buy from people that they trust and people that they are just being natural and being who they are and that's so important. So that is a very good lesson I think.

Angela Ferguson (28:20)
We also have a lot of our corporate clients during the briefing process. One of their goals will be we want our staff to be able to bring their whole selves to work. So, and I think, so I think corporates are starting to realise that goal around authenticity. And so a lot of the work we do is about, well, what does that mean then in the workplace that you allow people to bring their whole self to work? So that could mean things like providing prayer rooms or meditation rooms or different types of health and well-being initiatives and that sort of thing. So think it's, for me, it's really encouraging to see that happening on a bigger scale as well, that sort of quest for authenticity.

Caroline Kennedy (28:59)
Yeah, I completely agree. And as a business leader, what advice do you have for anyone struggling in business?

Angela Ferguson (29:07)
Well I think we've had good and bad times in our business and I think all you can do at any given time is to do the next right thing. So yeah I think if whether it's, I mean there's different types of struggles you know there's the economic struggle, that constant worrying about where the next project or the next job and then there's also the struggle of when the work's busy, how you know when things busy how you're going to resource the project but yes I think you've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep doing what you think is the next right thing you know keep on that path of doing what you do and why you do it and what you know what your beliefs are around why you're doing what you do.

Caroline Kennedy (29:53)
Yeah, that's very true and I think, you know, making sure that the values, your values are aligned with what you do as well is so important, especially for anyone really struggling.

Angela Ferguson (30:04)
Yeah, even if it all does go to hell, you know, like I've had times when I first started my business and I thought, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen is that it doesn't work out and I have to go and get a job. I know I'm very employable. So, you know, I think people always have options.

Caroline Kennedy (30:20)
Yeah, that's very true. One of my key sayings is give it a go. If it doesn't work, change it. And what keeps you up at night?

Angela Ferguson (30:27)
Exactly. I'm a born warrior and I always have been. God, there's, you know, how long have you got? But, from a business point of view, the things that keep me up at night really, it's probably the staffing thing, the people side of things. I think that's the, probably the hardest thing of running a business is, is managing people. I find that usually there's probably about three staff members who all have

issues that they may need help with at any given time and sometimes it feels a bit like that game Whack-a-mole you know with the little beavers popping up out of the holes and once you whack one down another one pops up but yeah I think the staff thing is the thing that worries me the most there's once I think you know everything's kind of running smoothly something else will happen and pop up and that's probably the biggest challenge.

Caroline Kennedy (31:26)
Yeah, people management is an ongoing challenge for any business, you know, with circumstances, what people need help with, their expectations, etc. So it is something that I think a lot of businesses are challenged with, no matter how big or small they are. And finally, what does the future look like for you?

Angela Ferguson (31:51)
Well, it's interesting actually because I always feel like I'm just beginning. So I'm still just beginning even though we've managed to achieve quite a lot. Well, it is, you know, it's December, it's the end of the year. So I'm looking forward at the moment to a of a break in January because it has been quite a busy year and just kind of re-energising and getting ready for 2017. So we've got this year, I think we have got some really interesting projects on the cards, but we've also just had PWC this week in Melbourne move into their client experience spaces and around sort January or February they'll be moving into their Sydney spaces in Barangaroo. And I think for 2017, I'm really excited to be able to start telling the stories about these projects because they are really groundbreaking. They're unlike anything we've ever seen before in terms of workplace design.

When I talk about workplace design, I'm talking about the places where people work. where the desks and the meeting rooms and the quiet rooms and those spaces are. The projects that we've just designed for PwC are four floors in each city with a big interconnecting set of client experience spaces. the way that we've, workplace evolution in Australia in the past 20 years has been revolutionary. The most amazing, incredible things have happened, but they're really only in the places where the people are.

So if you think about the places where an organisation will meet with its clients, nothing has really changed that much in the last 20 or 30 years. We still meet with people in a room with four walls and a table and some chairs and maybe a video screen. These projects that we've done for PwC have been completely disrupted that process. So we've designed these two incredible spaces that are the very best of hotel and hospitality and concierge and technology like you would see in the Minority Report movie. Really interactive, engaging, co-creative spaces that allow PwC to kind of disrupt the way that they engage with their clients. So those are just coming online now. And for me, 2017 is going to be about telling the stories of these really complex, really innovative, really disruptive environments.

Caroline Kennedy (34:15)
I'd love to have a look at one of those.

Angela Ferguson (34:17)
Oh, definitely. you're, Are you sitting on Melbourne Bay? Yeah. So we can definitely get you down to have a look through Melbourne because I was there this week when they moved in on Monday and it was just, it was incredible. It was like a massive party and high energy and such a vibe and such a buzz. And I was sort of texting my client saying, how's day two going? And she said, it's just, it's continuing on. So yeah, it's pretty amazing. Right.

Caroline Kennedy (34:20)
Melbourne.

I'll have to touch base with you in the new year and arrange that.

Angela Ferguson (34:46)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely.

Caroline Kennedy (34:49)
Well thank you so much for your time, Angela. I really appreciate it and I wish you a restful and safe best of season.

Angela Ferguson (35:00)
Thanks Caroline, thank you very much for having me. You're welcome.