Ep 14. Amanda Rose & The Power of Strategy Connection

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 14: The Power of Strategic Connections & Building a Personal Brand with Business Women's Media CEO Amanda Rose

Caroline Kennedy (00:20)
My guest today is Amanda Rose. Amanda is Australia's only strategic connector, a keynote speaker, CEO of the Business Women's Media and founding director of Western Sydney Women. As one of the most influential people on LinkedIn, Amanda Rose, hashtag Boss Lady, is quoted as an internet-winning blogger by Time.com and contributes regularly to Huffington Post, Sydney Morning Herald, Sky Business, Women's Agenda, Smartcompany.com.au on how to master a successful brand, career and business, a passionate keynote speaker, Amanda Rose, who works with the Australian Defence Force, CPA Australia, Law Institute, ANZ, Western Sydney University and the Royal Australian Navy. Congratulations on all your achievements to date Amanda.

Amanda Rose (01:22)
Thank you.

Caroline Kennedy (01:23)
Certainly is a lot going on in your life isn't there?

Amanda Rose (01:27)
Yes, you don't realize until someone outlines it that way. Yes, there is a lot.

Caroline Kennedy (01:31)
Now so tell us about the business women media and where it all began.

Amanda Rose (01:38)
Simply forced started because no one would actually publish what I wanted to share with women about how to succeed as a woman in the business world. There are realities that we need to face being strategic about how to deal with men, other women, the corporate ladder, other businesses, whatever it is, there's so much we need to deal with and no one would publish it because they didn't want to offend that was the quote, we don't want to offend anyone. So I started my own blog to share that content and then it ended up a viral blog and it hasn't stopped since.

Caroline Kennedy (02:16)
So clearly this is what people want.

Amanda Rose (02:20)
Yes, it is. it's the fact that tapping into, you know, I always say write about what you want to know about and what you know, because there's someone else there that needs to know it too.

Caroline Kennedy (02:31)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so when people log on to the Business Woman Media, what do they find there? Like what benefits are there?

Amanda Rose (02:41)
just everything you need to know to succeed. So it's for women who are serious about success. even if it's traveling motherhood and cruelty, how to deal with men in the business world, let's face it, they can be difficult. Also how to deal with other women in the business world, which a lot of people don't face and don't talk about. Everything, everything you need to know to succeed, we write about.

Caroline Kennedy (03:08)
Great. And I certainly, you know, I've been following you for quite a while and I love your honesty about all the challenges that we face in the world because I think too, we can tend to glorify success and make it seem like it's quite easy, which it's not. There's so much hard work.

Amanda Rose (03:32)
It is unbelievably difficult and it's a very lonely journey. To succeed you do have to accept the fact that you might end up on your own at the top. When a lot of people assume success means you'll be surrounded by a lot of friends but you're not. You're actually surrounded by a lot of people that might want to leverage off you which is fine if you're smart about it but it is a lonely journey. You need to be very, very smart about every single decision you make.

Caroline Kennedy (03:56)
Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Now tell us about Western Sydney women.

Amanda Rose (04:03)
Yes. Well, Western Sydney women is, it came out of the fact that women from the West had a shocking stigma attached to them that if you're from Western Sydney, you were never going to succeed. And being a woman, goodness me, it's hard enough being a woman as it is, but being from a woman from the West, were, you know, if you were educated, it was, oh, that's, that's interesting.

If you dressed well, or if you wanted to be a CEO of a business, was oh, it just wasn't considered possible. And there was a massive market there for women that needed confidence building, education on how to be economically independent and all these things that just weren't receiving. They were just completely ignored. So we started this advocacy group to be the voice of all women from all of Western City, from the inner west, greater west, northwest and southwest and then we run events. So we run free workshops on women on how to become economically independent and confident.

Caroline Kennedy (05:06)
Okay. That's, you know, obviously that's really important, particularly for women who need that assistance and that support, isn't it?

Amanda Rose (05:17)
Absolutely. The thing is women don't know one, what's available to them, but also their confidence to take it. So they feel, look, you know, it's generational. It could be, look, this is just who I am. This is just my life. Well, actually, no, if you want better, you can get it and this is how. Yeah. And it's that tiny layer by layer approach of building someone's confidence and teaching them what they need to know that they will then take off and then they can lead and be a mentor to other women.

Caroline Kennedy (05:47)
Yeah, and has a flow on effect then doesn't it too?

Amanda Rose (05:50)
Absolutely. Oh, it does. And just from one event, a woman can come up and say, wow, this has completely changed my outlook on life. I'm going to do something different with my life now. And if that can just happen one by one, and there are a million women in Western Sydney, so there's a lot that can happen. And we've had women turn up or even contact us saying, look, I was from Western Sydney. I've had the stigma and now I'm a CEO or now I have my own company. And I'd like to come and talk and show women that it can be done.

Caroline Kennedy (06:20)
Oh, that's great. And it's good to have those individuals that women can aspire to or they can see that they've achieved it and then they their stories, you know, that is so important. And I think for what you're doing too within the community is some people just think, oh, it's too hard. It's such a big, it's just, it's, we're never going to have an impact, but if we all take that approach then there is never going to be an impact. But one small step each time and just moving forward slowly and having that impact one by one makes a huge difference.

Amanda Rose (07:00)
And it's just like in business, anything. It's one person at a time. It's just like when you're building your own business and you're following any connections, it's one person at a time. And that person is connected to another five and they're connected to another five and it has a ripple effect. A lot of times people just, they tried to get a lot happen very quickly instead of realizing it needs to be a one by one approach.

Caroline Kennedy (07:15)
Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And that never happens. I mean, we think it does, but it doesn't. It takes years to build success. And it's one day at a time, one foot at a, you know, one foot forward at a time, I suppose. Now what, what has been the fundamental tactics that you've used to grow your business?

Amanda Rose (07:37)
That's exactly right. And not to try and rush it because if you rush it you'll miss out on steps and the second you miss out on some steps you have to go back to building so being genuinely interested in other people and what you can deliver them knowing exactly what it is that you do for people so what is it that you offer a lot of people are very I'm know I'm a consultant this and they're very generic. They're very specific about who you are and what you offer and how you can help the other person because if we have the attitude of teaching people instead of selling to people, you'll have a very strong loyal following. And that's essentially the core of everything that I do.

Caroline Kennedy (08:31)
Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. And you know, there are so many people that I talk to and clients that say, I'm going to go to networking to find business, to hand out my business card, you know, to get clients. Well, and I say to them, well, what can you offer them first? Like, what can you contribute to this relationship without expecting anything in return? That's, that's,

Amanda Rose (08:58)
Well, that's human nature. Human nature is give me, give me, give me. And there are a lot of businesses out there that get away with it.

Caroline Kennedy (09:03)
Yeah. No, you're right. Yeah. Now you mentioned before, obviously, and we were just talking about relationship building being the core of the tactics that you've used. You're a big believer in relationship and connecting and that it requires a strategic approach. So tell us about that and maybe some particular tips in regards to the strategic approach.

Amanda Rose (09:41)
Yes, well, people think connecting is like networking when it's not. So you can't just turn up to an event and chat with someone, think I've connected with them. Connecting means understanding who that person is, or actually take a step before that, understanding who you are and what you want out of that particular situation. So it could be an event, a meeting, looking someone up online, anything that you're doing, any activity in business, you need to be strategic. And if you're dealing with the other person, that's the connecting. So how do you connect with someone? You teach them, you learn about them, you do your research. You need to be thorough.

Effort is the one missing factor in business today. No one wants to put in the effort. They want everything and they want it now without having to put in the effort. It is. And so being strategic is right. Well, what I want out of this relationship and what can I give this relationship in return? You know, what's in it for them? What's in it for me? Working out all these factors before you even go to an event. So say you need to, you've been invited to a function.

Caroline Kennedy (10:28)
That's so true.

Amanda Rose (10:46)
You need to ask yourself first, do I need to go to this function? Is it relevant to my business? Is it relevant to my brand? Who's going? Try and get the list. Connect with them beforehand. Look them up on LinkedIn. They're looking forward to meeting them at the event. So when you're there, we know who you're dealing with and they will want to speak to you and they'll feel comfortable speaking to you because they've already connected with you online. So even before attending an event, you need to be strategic about it and connect with them.

Put in the effort when you speak with someone, don't just sell yourself, ask about them, be genuinely interested. Little things like when you've finished working with someone or you've had a coffee with someone, write them a handwritten card and say, don't ask everyone to catch up for coffee unless you've told them what's in it for them. You know, saying, let's do coffee, okay, why?

I know what I can deliver you or what I can give you during that coffee and so do you and that's why you're asking but what's in it for me? So you've got to sell yourself to that person. If you want to do coffee with someone you've got to say well this is what's in it for you if you have coffee with me.

Caroline Kennedy (11:45)
Yeah, absolutely. Now you've been very successful in building your personal brand. Tell us about why you decided to build a personal brand and the benefits you've seen from it.

Amanda Rose (12:06)
Well, if you don't have a good quality brand and you don't tell people about it, no one will know who you are. It's quite simple. you know, it's the fact that a lot of people are really, really good at what they do and I speak to them, you know, and I meet them regularly, unless people know about it, it's irrelevant.

You need to tell as many people about what you do and how good you are doing it without being cocky, obviously. And so building a personal brand is very, very, very important and sticking to it. Can I just say when it comes to your brand, it's also means who you deal with in business. So a lot of people don't realize that deciding who to work with in business can make or break your brand, your personal brand. And don't just go for the opportunity that's there in front of you because it's there in front of you. Question it, ask it and so forth.

And building a brand leads to business. Lead generational comes down to people knowing who you are, they're comfortable with who you are, they trust who you are, and they've seen you around enough that you're top of mind. And then they'll ask the question. Then they'll make that inquiry. And then it's up to you to put in the effort to discuss, to teach, to explain who you are. But mind you, they've had to see you, trust you and all these other things before they make that inquiry. Go on to the data, they just Google something and then boom, they contact you. They actually need to feel like they already know you and they already have some form of trust. And that's why you build your brand.

Caroline Kennedy (13:32)
Absolutely. And I think that what you said before about choosing who you work with and ensure that they're aligned, that is so integral because I know even for myself, know, I have really, in my business, the brand values are what I use as a, I suppose, a barometer to who I work with. I'm very clear on what our brand values are and make sure that the people that I work with have similar values as well. And that's really important to me with doing business, you know, because it is a reflection on you, who you work with.

Amanda Rose (14:10)
It is. And there will become a time though, that you'll be enticed by a lot of people that flatter you. So flatter is extremely dangerous and people should watch out for that. And so flattering you think, wow, I've made it. So this is fantastic. If people want to work with me and you've got to be very careful about that because just because, you know, they've got a good brand or not a good brand, a popular brand. let's clarify that. Yeah. It's because a brand is popular. mean that they're moral or good or going to add value to your brand.

And you think, wow. they will work with me. very careful. Often they can, they prey on people that have potential and they can see you've got potential. So you need to believe in yourself enough to say, no, if I work with you, I know that my brand is actually going to be VW'd. And you start to choose your clients. And sometimes it's tough, especially when you're starting out on your own.

Amanda Rose (15:04)
Some people might say, this is really, really tough because, you need clients, you need business. So to make that call, you might be missing out on money, but in the long run, it pays off.

Caroline Kennedy (15:14)
Yeah, that's very true. Now what are your tips for creating a personal brand?

Amanda Rose (15:21)
Wow. Creating a personal brand. And this is very interesting because a lot of people don't really know who they are and they don't know what they represent. I have actually a video on Amanda Rose TV on YouTube that takes people through the steps on developing your own personal brand. Yep. And a big part of that is knowing who you are at the core. And I always say if you woke up tomorrow and you didn't have your family in your job, what is it that would get you out of bed? So what's your call?

What is it? What's your core belief system? What is it that's going to get you out of bed in the morning when you've lost everything? Because that is actually what's going to guide all your decisions in life. So when you're faced with a moral dilemma or when you're faced with a decision of who to work with, that's what's based on. And if your core is greed, for example, then you're going to say yes to anything that you think is going to make you money regardless of the consequence. So that's why you need to know what that core is. You need to know your purpose and your passion.

A lot of people fall into the danger of, I'm so passionate about this, I'm going to start a business in this. Well, no, because passion doesn't give you money. It's, know, passion is great to have because it gets you up and you need to work towards working with your passion. But that might mean for some people working part-time or full-time in a job for 10 years that you hate. So you can set up a business on the side to work in your passion.

Do your research. Just because you're passionate doesn't mean it's an automatically guaranteed successful business. You still need to know if there's a market and how good you are and you're only strong as you work with links. what are, maybe you're good at that. So could be finance, marketing and so forth. You need to have a purpose. Nearly every event that I've run or spoken at, if I ask women or men, where do you want to be in five years from now? Does anyone know? About three out of 300 would put their hands up.

So people don't have their five year plan. it's when you think about it, you're literally wasting every decision you make if you do not know that if that decision is going to take you to where you want to be in five years from now. Even replying to an email, going to an event, it might be a wonderful event. think, wow, this very impressive. Yes, but is it going to take you closer to that five year goal? Because if it's not, don't do it. Don't go because it's hours of your time you could spend doing something that will take you closer to that goal.

Caroline Kennedy (17:43)
Yeah, that is so true.

Amanda Rose (17:45)
Exactly. just don't, a lot of people don't ask themselves that. Asking yourself questions and being honest with the answer. We just don't like answering honest questions.

Caroline Kennedy (17:54)
And I think too, and I say this to my clients all the time, like you have to start with strategic mapping and planning to know where you want to go. And then you map out how you're going to get there. And then it ties into what you've just said is then you look at every decision you make. that getting me closer to my end goal, whatever that may be. But without that, you don't have any clarity or direction really, do you?

Amanda Rose (18:22)
That's right. And to be honest, a lot of people, I would say probably 70 % of people don't like to have a plan because they fear failing it. They fear that they won't make it, that they won't achieve it. So it's comfortable just to stay where you are, doing what you do and complain about not making it rather than actually putting in a strategy or even one goal and saying, is what I need to do to make it because they worry about not making it and that they might fail at that. That's scary. But wouldn't you rather fail and try again? Yeah. Then spend 20 years of your life saying, it didn't work out. I've had clients that do a lot of prep work. People like to attend meetings and functions and get degrees and go to courses and read books, but they don't implement anything.

Caroline Kennedy (18:51)
Yeah. And implementation and action are key. If you don't do that, then you might as well just, you might as well just not get out of bed to be honest.

Amanda Rose (19:21)
Exactly, exactly. And you're better off implementing one thing than talking about a hundred things.

Caroline Kennedy (19:26)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree. Now social media is a powerful tool in a very tech savvy consumer world. What are your tips for business owners to maximise social media to grow their brand's profile and even to generate leads?

Amanda Rose (19:44)
Social media is like a relationship. Once you start, you've got to keep going. You can't pop in and out of different social media tools just for the sake of it or for a particular event or activity. You've got to find the right one for your brand. You do not have to be involved in every single one. You do not have to have Twitter and Facebook and Instagram if it's not suited to your brand. So pick two or three that are right for you. Put in the effort.

See it as a, I like to social media as your media outlet. So you do not have to rely so much on other media, the traditional media and the blogs out there. If you've got a good following on your social media, that's your media outlet. That's you getting your information out to your target audience. Get onto LinkedIn if you're a professional in any form at all.

Get onto LinkedIn, use it, fill it in, look at other people, look at mine, look at yours, look at other people to see what you need to do, put in the effort, update it regularly, share content regularly. So when it comes to social media, it's irrelevant if you do not share content. The content is king, it always will be. Your content, other people's content to show people, really, the more you help people grow their business or whatever your specialty is, the more likely they're going to come back to you to learn more. So using social media as your media outlet and filling it in with good quality content on regular basis.

Caroline Kennedy (21:15)
Yeah. And that's also about, and something you do really well as being the expert and actually providing, you know, advice and, and wanting to actually assist people and help them on their journey. And that's really important. That goes back to what we were talking about before. It's not all about social media. It's not all about you, you, you, it's actually, can you do and what can you share and how can you contribute to, to other people and how can you build yourself as the thought leader and share your advice to whoever that may be.

Amanda Rose (21:51)
And look, it's hard because, you know, a lot of people say, and look, we've all been there. You see other brands out there pushing, selling, selling, selling, but not sharing. know, they get business and that's great. But what will happen is that whoever works with them will realize this hasn't, nothing's come from this. So do not share content unless you've done it yourself. That's my rule. So once you do it yourself and you've learned, then you share, then you teach.

So as you learn, you teach and you just keep that method going throughout your journey. As you learn, you teach that people will actually have practical examples and you know, lot of people say, oh, but if I tell them everything, they won't come to me. No, there's going to be two types of people you're sharing content to. Your followers, which may never ever, ever hire you or pay for your services, but they will tell everyone about you and share your content or your potential prospects, which are often very rarely share your content but they read it religiously. know, they've got like Hawkeyes, they know what you're up to and what you're doing and out of nowhere they'll contact you saying, let's do business.

Caroline Kennedy (22:58)
Yeah. Yep. That is very true. And the point you make about there are a lot of organisations and you know, just clients saying, but I don't want to share my IP. And, I just think it's ludicrous because you, you know, IP is, general. Everybody's an expert or they've been there, you know, done that or whatever. But I think when we talk about IP and sharing it, it's more about you are you, nobody can replicate you. So people are not going to copy it. Do you know what I mean? And if they do copy it, they don't have your knowledge.

Amanda Rose (23:36)
I've all the time. It's relentless. Some of them do fool me every now and then. I do have a little chuckle. And that's fine. Go for it. If my ideas or whatever it was is so brilliant that you have to copy it, then go for it. But where's the follow through? So everything I write, everything I do, and everything I develop is based on my experience, based on my vision.

I have the follow through and that's the thing. And a lot of people that copy and this is why I advise people don't copy others. You get ideas from others. Yes, but don't copy because there's no follow through. How can you follow through on that idea if you didn't come up with it? Come up with your own ideas and they need to be based on your experience. And if you do not have the experience, go out and get it. Do not just say, look, I love motivating women. I want to be a business coach. You and 5,000 other people.

Go and run a successful business, have some clients under your wing that have proven track record that you've helped them successfully, and then you can do it. Take time and experience. You just cannot fake that. You can't miss a step.

Caroline Kennedy (24:50)
No, a lot of people do and then they wonder why they fail. Yeah. Now I read an article of yours recently and it was quite interesting. was about how you don't believe in leaders that that leaders should show their vulnerability, especially because we talk a lot about being authentic in business and being an authentic leader, which I know you agree with, but it's the vulnerability side that, that you were challenged by. So tell us about that.

Amanda Rose (25:20)
I if there's a really big movement and push for something, you've really got to take a step back and say, why would I, what's that about? And is that me? Don't just follow a trend because everyone thinks it's a wonderful trend. And a big trend is that whole vulnerability in leadership. And if you go back to even as a child or when you're in a workplace and you look at your leader, the CEO, your parents, whatever the figure is, you want them to be absolutely confident and strong in hard times. You want them to know exactly what they're doing, how they're doing it to a degree and you feel safe. You feel safe, you feel included.

The second you expect a leader or the second you say to a leader, show your vulnerability, which is a weakness, as a leader, you're going to lose respect for your followers. Not only lose respect, they're going to feel less safe. They're going to feel that this is an environment where I don't feel stable, we're weak. If you're at war and your leader stood up and said we're about to go into battle but then he decided to have a bit of a cry because he's a little scared and everyone praises him. isn't it wonderful he's showing his vulnerable side and turned around, he's gone. He's going to follow that leader into battle, he just cried, he doesn't think, he thinks we're all going to die.

Amanda Rose (26:45)
Well the thing is, that's okay for people to be like that privately. What CERN is trying to push is for us to put all our emotions on the table and to be emotionally immature is the most dangerous thing you can be in business. You need to be extremely confident and emotionally mature and that includes if you are upset or if you do have issues, you privately deal with them, you privately have your advisory board or the people you that you deal with, you know, talk to us for help. But when you lead, you need to lead with confidence, with strength, vulnerability, no, but compassion, yes.

So you can still share compassion for people in need and compassion for a situation, but it does not mean you get up on stage and start crying. And a lot of people use that as manipulation technique as well. So really, deep down, we're all thinking, crap, our leader is not strong, our leader's starting to break, I'm scared. And you can't do that as a leader. And it's a guarantee that people deep down won't feel safe if you're leading with that mentality.

Caroline Kennedy (27:52)
Yeah. And I actually really enjoyed reading the article because it does contradict, as you say, the trend at the moment. I think, well, contradict meaning you can be authentic. And I think what you've just mentioned before about being compassionate, compassion for me is authentic, but, and I agree with you about the vulnerability because you're showing a weakness and, and leaders need to be leaders and they need to be strong.

Amanda Rose (28:19)
Authentic is about being you and if that's really the case then you know what you're have a real bunch of not nice people come out and say you want me to be authentic? Right, this is how I lead. I want money, that's why I'm here. You can all go and do whatever I don't care. So what people should be pushing is that you want character. You want a leader that has good quality character, strong character, that can stand up in tough times at show compassion because really technically the term authentic means to be who you really are and I think we'd be quite shocked if we found out who people really were half the time.

Caroline Kennedy (28:59)
Yeah, and that is so true. Yeah, it is very valid point, especially about the money. And you know, what's funny is that people would never, well, generally people never admit that that's their primary motivator, even if it is.

Amanda Rose (29:13)
And you know what, there's no shame in it. There's no shame in, look, we're in business to make money and that's problem. But when you have the means justifies the end approach, which is usually more greed than anything else, then that's dangerous and people will justify their ways for absolutely anything. then on the flip side, women feel guilty saying or asking for money. Well, you're in business. There's nothing wrong with valuing yourself and saying, is what I'm worth. This is what I know I can deliver.

Caroline Kennedy (29:42)
Yeah, and that leads me down another path, but I'm going to say it anyway about, you know, women, you know, there's a lot of, I suppose, talk about how can we, you know, get parity with pay, etc. for women, it's not fair, it's not fair. And for years, I've said, women need to just own their worth, they need to ask for what they're worth. That's how change is going to occur.

Not from complaining about it, but actually doing, taking the action. know, many, at times when I'd be doing appraisals for some of my senior leaders and, and they'd say, I'd like a pay rise or do I get a pay rise? Well, what, what do you want? And they couldn't answer me. And I used to push, it and push them so that they were uncomfortable and, and to teach them that you need to be prepared. You need to know what you want and you need to own your worth and substantiate why you're worth it.

Amanda Rose (30:38)
Yes, absolutely. A lot of women are very comfortable in complaining and it's a lot easier just to complain that you're not getting paid as much or you haven't had the promotion because that's the topic of discussion on the weekends. But there two issues. One is the lack of self-worth and self-valuing and the second is self-promotion. So unless you value yourself of what is it you deliver, no one else is going to value it unless you've promote yourself to say, this is what I've done and negotiate, then no one will give it to you. And this is business. I think it's quite silly and ridiculous to say to a company, you have to pay me the same as him because I'm a woman. Hang on a minute. How about, do you do the same amount of work? Do you work the same amount? Are your outputs the same? Oh, I don't know. Well, prove it. Show it.

And if your output is more, say, well, I want this because this is the race that I should be being paid for the output that I'm producing. And there's nothing, I think, people actually, all did this, they probably end up getting paid more than men. Because men know how to talk themselves up. They got a 60 % ability to talk themselves up to 90. Women have a 90 % ability and talk themselves down to 60%. So, you know, there's a chance that women could end up getting paid more than men purely because, they often do more but learning to negotiate. And that's what it is, it's calling bluff and learning to negotiate.

Caroline Kennedy (32:04)
Yeah. And you know, I was at an event the other day and they were talking about maybe, and it was gender equality and a government event. And they were talking about maybe businesses should have quotas of women that need to be in senior positions and not necessarily based on merit. And I was appalled by that. was absolutely appalled because I think it comes back to that we're doing the women an injustice by doing that because there are plenty of capable women in this world and they just need to put their hands up and they need to say, I'm here and I'm capable and I'm going to do it. And we promote based on that as opposed to just to fill quotas. I just don't.

Amanda Rose (32:51)
Exactly and you're also going to just instantaneously make it harder for men and women to work together because every single man in that organization is going to resent any single woman that is in a senior leadership position. So they've actually made it harder for collaborative workplace environment than easier. And it's really foolish to have quotas when there are not the same amount in the book.

So you've got, it is a man's role in business. You've got 80 % of men in the executive pool and then 20 % women. Then to say you want 50, 50 % or whatever it is for women is absolutely foolish business-wise. It's great to have women in executive leadership positions, but you need to start from the beginning and mentor them up to those positions and say, you're ready, let's go for it. You can be in there. Having the attitude of we need 50 % women because it's the right thing to do.

You're instantly going to isolate, well isolate the men. They're going to hate any woman in that position and you're missing out on talent for talent's sake.

Caroline Kennedy (33:52)
I thought it was ludacris to be honest.

Amanda Rose (33:54)
We're an organization that I don't know what they're doing with men not being promoted. It's ridiculous. And look, I'm not saying it's not the men's fault to begin with because essentially the boys club came out of, let's give another guy a position purely because he's a man, which is what happened. And that didn't turn out very well. So how about we just give people positions because they're good at what they do regardless of who they are where they're from.

Caroline Kennedy (34:20)
That's exactly what I said. and it's really important that we continue to do that and we continue to have those conversations as well, because it should be based on merit at all stage at all points, not at, and actually then, as you said before, is about looking at how we can mentor, whether it be males or females, just to, to, you know, help and just to lead people and to build more leaders at the end of the day. And that's our responsibility.

Anyway, I'll get off that subject. Now, you also wrote a piece last year on why women block women, which I found quite interesting and how we can change this, which sort of leads onto it from my last point anyway. And you shared some examples around lead by examples, around yourself with women that are smarter than you, bring them with you, take the emotion out of it.

All of those points are so important and I particularly love, you know, always surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. And I do that all the time, whether it be male or female, I don't care. But anybody that I can learn from and grow from and in turn, obviously develop relationships with, but also take the emotion out of it, which I think, you know, women tend to be challenged with. It's something that has never challenged me because I had a really diverse, adverse, sorry, childhood. So I grew up not being quite emotional. So, and I think that that's been one of the reasons why I have been successful is because I do take the emotion out of it. So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Amanda Rose (35:56)
It's business for the sake. You're not dating these people. You're not friendly with people. You can be friendly but this is business. It's a transactional environment. The second you add emotion to that, you're putting yourself in a very dangerous position. Women are very emotional beings and a lack of self-control is very dangerous in life and learning business. Women also like to use emotion as kind of an excuse, being emotional it's always an excuse for something of why they're not successful or this person did this to me or or any manipulation technique. Men do it in a different way. The women use emotions to beat around the bush or to not have to do something or to work hard.

Now again being in control of your emotions is very different from being compassionate. So you can be extremely compassionate but you'll see women cry at work because they don't want to have to do work or things are too hard. And I'm thinking, okay, well, would a man do that? So a man will get in there, do his job, end of story, move out. When it comes to women working with women, I mean, I know I get absolutely ripped to shreds online when I say it, but women do fight women. And I have a one particular woman that I bring with me to any board opportunities I have. I'll say, I'll come onto the board if I get to bring this woman.

But I've been in situations where I've said, okay, I'd like to bring this woman onto the board and in the first board meeting watch that woman throw me under the bus. So, you know, and this is a reality. This is just what happens. It's very much a man will think, right, thank you for doing that for me and I'll be and they'll be like, now you owe me, I owe you. This is business. It's transactional.

And that's the way it is. And they're very upfront, a lot more upfront than a woman. A woman will be like, that's lovely, that's nice, but really they've got another motive. But because there's limited spots, but also the lack of self-confidence with women is that if you come up with an idea, they'll feel threatened because they didn't come up with an idea that was so wonderful. And it's absolutely one big mess all of the time dealing with women. I've only really dealt with, say, 10 women that haven't done it to me in my entire career and I've had men do it to me as well but I've had more men help me than women even with Western Sydney women and the thing is take the emotion out of it. If you're really serious about business go in there know what you want. It is transactional whether it's financial or time or anything else it's transactional but I think because women have spent their time, they've become comfortable and it's become a society or like a trend to complain and to to whinge as part of conversation and to gossip that they've got to perpetuate that that is their identity. So if they actually take that away, there's not much left. So if you have a good quality brand, you know your vision, you know what you want in life, you'll have something else to focus on rather than that.

Caroline Kennedy (38:56)
Yeah, yeah, that's very true. And I think it also comes back to that taking action. If you want something, go out there and get it and don't blame everyone else for the for you not having it.

Amanda Rose (39:08)
They love to complain. I'm not doing, yeah, okay, that's nice. you give them, know, these are the three things you need to do to succeed. They won't do it, they just like complaining and they like going to functions for the sake of it.

Caroline Kennedy (39:19)
I have this quality whereby I am very honest with people and for good reason because I think it actually benefits them and I respect anyone who can be honest with me in return. But it doesn't always go down very well but it's so important to continue to say it because we need to make this change and it needs to happen and you need to hear it at the end of the day.

Amanda Rose (39:43)
Well, lot of women get conned in business purely because people tell them what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.

Caroline Kennedy (39:50)
Yeah, yeah, very true. Now, what are the biggest lessons you've learned in business?

Amanda Rose (39:56)
Trust no one. Trust no one and you're off to a good start. And I mean it.

Caroline Kennedy (40:04)
That's very true.

Amanda Rose (40:06)
There are levels of trust. So you might trust that person 10%, that person 20%, but really you need to accept the fact that you are on your own to trust no one. The second is don't do it the easy way, do it the right way. So whether that comes down to processes, working hard, earning money, taking opportunities, you've got to say, this is actually no, this is the wrong way or this is not right. Don't do it. It takes a lot longer but it's worth it. And three, would be time. You cannot compensate time and experience. So if you're in a new industry, then learn as much as you can, get as much experience as you can. But if you've been in an industry for very long time, don't think, oh, I've done this, a lot of women question it, and I've done it for so long. That's good. That's experience. That's time. You can't skip that step.

A lot of people want it and I want it now. It's just not going to work that way.

Caroline Kennedy (41:08)
Yeah, life isn't like that.

Amanda Rose (41:10)
Not at all.

Caroline Kennedy (41:11)
No, and finally, what does the future look like for you and particularly for your businesses?

Amanda Rose (41:19)
I've got my five year plan, but I never tell anyone what it is because that would be stupid. But I tell everyone, don't tell people your five year plan because everyone loves to watch you fail and not reach it. Essentially it's to continue doing what I do, continue doing what I love and I evolve. So I evolve based on my ability, my experience, but also on the needs of what's out there.

So currently, you know, there's a need for people with branding and profile building. The business world and media came out of the need to teach women and I'll just keep evolving that way. Western city women came out from a need and that's what you've to constantly look at. Okay, what are the needs? What's needed out there? And what can I do? What are my skill sets? What's my ability? And then create something from that.

Caroline Kennedy (42:02)
Yeah, that's so true. And I think that also comes back to, know, what we talked about before is what are you passionate about, but is there a need for it as well? Does the market need it?

Amanda Rose (42:12)
Just because you like making cupcakes, you start a cupcake business.

Caroline Kennedy (42:16)
Yeah, yeah, very true, very true. Thank you so much for your time today, Amanda. Now I will share all of the links to amandarose.com.au and to the Business Woman Media and I recommend that all of our listeners go and check it out. Amanda shares her advice, her experience and some really great content and so do other contributors as well. So there's a lot of information and ideas and sharing so you'll get a lot out of it. Thanks Amanda, I really appreciate your time.

Amanda Rose (42:51)
Pleasure.