Ep 7. Cyan Ta’eed: The Unfiltered Truth About Women in Tech & Disruption

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 7: Cyan Ta’eed: The Unfiltered Truth About Women in Tech & Disruption

Caroline Kennedy (00:16)
Welcome and today my guest is Cyan Ta'eed. She's co-founder and executive director of Envato. Founded in 2006 in Cyan's parents' garage, Envato is a creative ecosystem, encompassing the largest digital marketplace in the world. It's six million members buy and sell digital stock and services and Envato has delivered over $400 million of earnings to their community of creatives so far. Cyan is 2015 Telstra Victorian Businesswoman of the Year and Envato was awarded Job Advisor's Coolest Company for Women in 2015.

She is also the founder of New Day Box, an initiative that mobilises the community to make boxes of skincare and cosmetics for women in domestic violence crisis accommodation. Last year, New Day Box distributed over 2,500 boxes to women around Victoria. Cyan began her career as a graphic designer and is driven by empowering fellow creative professionals to build a sustainable living doing what they love. She is also deeply passionate about supporting women in technology and at work and is a popular speaker and communicator in this space. Congratulations, Cyan, on building a highly successful business and your amazing achievements to date.

Cyan Ta'eed (01:47)
Thanks, Caroline Thanks for having me.

Caroline Kennedy (01:49)
Welcome now tell us about Envato and how it all began.

Cyan Ta'eed (01:53)
So, Envato really started out of quite humble beginnings. We were selling stock. My husband and I were selling some photographs and some flash online. And we realized there were so many things that we would like to be buying and selling to people all over the world which really weren't available at that point, couldn't really get them, especially, you know, couldn't get them all in one place.

And so we decided to start something ourselves. And we were quite naive. We thought, yeah, something like this will take a few weeks to build and it will cost a few thousand dollars. And of course it really didn't work out that way. And fast forward six months and we were, you know, busily trying to do freelance design work, to pay bills.

While at night on the weekends working on the business, we were living in my parents' basement, we'd maxed out our credit cards and we'd borrow money from my husband's parents all just to keep afloat. So when we finally launched, we really, really needed to hustle to make it work. But from there, it turns out that luckily it was actually what the market was looking for at that time and it started to grow. And 10 years later, here we are.

Caroline Kennedy (03:08)
Yeah, certainly built a lot of momentum. And I think it's also fortunate that you were naive because had you not been, you probably wouldn't have started.

Cyan Ta'eed (03:17)
Yes, I have to say one of my mentors once said to me, know, your greatest asset was your naivety because I think if you'd had any idea how difficult what you're about to what you were about to undertake would be, there's no way you would have done it. But, but, you know, obviously, in hindsight, you wow, that was that was quite a big journey. And there were many, many times when we were learning as fast as we could to keep up but I had no idea that it would grow to the size that it would grow when we first started it.

Caroline Kennedy (03:47)
That all comes down to, think, solving a problem. And when you identify that there's a gap in the market and that you can actually provide a solution to it, then generally that's where businesses gain momentum. So you tapped into it at exactly the right time. Now I understand that when you first launched the business, you went traveling because you'd set it up to work from any, anywhere. Tell us about that.

Cyan Ta'eed (04:03)
Mmm. Well, I think one of the things that sort of drove me to sort of decide to start this business was I thought, well, it'll be a supplemental income and we can work while we travel. I hadn't done any traveling up until that point. Well, no extensive traveling. Here and there with my parents a couple of times, but not really much traveling as an adult. And I had a graphic and web design business at that point.

Back then clients really liked to see you. They liked to sort of, you you to go into their offices and to, you know, spend some time together. So it wouldn't have worked for us to take to travel while doing that sort of that client work. So really Envato was a means to sort of say, all right, we can earn some supplemental income while we travel. Obviously, you know, once we launched the business and we were fully engaged in it, we realised, well, okay, you know, in order for this to sort of to make the most of this as a growing business, we need to keep working. We need to keep working on it full time.

So at that point we decided, all right, well, as soon as it's profitable, we'll pack up everything and we'll go and sort of work on it from overseas for a while, which is what we did. So about 18 months in, we sold everything we owned in a garage sale and on the front garden of our apartment building and packed up two suitcases with the laptops and a few bits and pieces and off we went. And we took a plane to Hong Kong and we had one week's accommodation and then we just sort of found somewhere to live and took it from there. And we ended up spending the next 18 months living and working around the world. We spent some time in Europe, we spent some time in the US, Canada and a couple of places in Asia and obviously had an absolutely fantastic time.

But towards the end we were working really long hours and you're in Paris in the winter time and you're thinking great this is some, we're really working 50 hour weeks here and while it's nice to go out at 8 o'clock at night and get something to eat in Paris potentially. We'd hired team members back in Melbourne and we thought, well, maybe it be good to go back there and actually meet some of these people. So, and at that point, sort of, think the most exciting thing was to see where this business might take us. So we went back and we settled down in Melbourne.

Caroline Kennedy (06:37)
I think too, you know, that's such a great story about your purpose was, okay, let's see if we can do, you know, a facilitated business remotely. Then you go to have these great experiences, realise that the business is starting to grow, but it's like you can have your cake and eat it a little bit. And then you've done the travelling, you've got to have these wonderful experiences and you come home.

And then you focus on, you know, I suppose growing the business significantly from there, don't you? So it's a really nice story. love it. Now you're a big advocate for workplace flexibility, job sharing and diversity. They all form part of your company values. How do you ensure these values are lived by the team at Envato?

Cyan Ta'eed (07:22)
I think it's a process of education. I think, so I think when we first started, it was really just getting the team to think about these things. And I think when you talk to almost anybody about flexibility and you frame it as this is a people issue, this is not a working mothers issue. This is a people issue. Abbey in HR is a national level lacrosse player, she needs to go around Australia and around the world at certain times playing lacrosse. I want to give Abby flexibility because she's fantastic at her job and she shouldn't have to choose.

For those people who are parents, men and women, I personally, want to be there at the Kinder Mother's Day celebration. And I don't feel that it's right for for parents, male or female, to have to choose between those things. I feel like people should have flexibility. And I think once you start framing those conversations around what people need as opposed to what working mothers need, then suddenly it really shifts an organization. Because when it comes down to it, everybody needs flexibility. Everybody wants to live a life with balance where they can do their best work and also pursue things outside of work.

And everybody benefits when we have an organization which embraces that. It takes a different level of management skill. It takes managers who are focusing on results and setting really concrete goals and really focusing in on performance. But I think great, you know, if you want to be a manager, then it's really important that you have really high standards for how you sort of support and interact with your teams anyway. So it's been a sort of a learning process for us as an organization to figure out what is needed in order to facilitate those sort of those values and how we work. But now it also means that the people that we get coming to sort of applying for jobs at Envato, the people who are staying at Envato are really engaged in our efforts and our philosophy around diversity and flexibility.

Caroline Kennedy (09:33)
You know what, as you were talking there, I was thinking a lot about, you know, your position on this and how you've approached it. And you talked about management and I think, you know, what I'm hearing from you is very much about leadership, about those key qualities that leaders have about actually caring for their team members and the culture within their business and the mindset of people and their lifestyles as well and ensuring that they have value.

And in my view, I've always believed that culture eats strategy for breakfast. And I know that that's a saying that's widely thrown around, but it's so true. If you get your culture right and you can offer your teams that flexibility and they buy into the mission and the vision, it just creates an environment where people prosper and they want to be involved and they want to contribute. And it sounds like that that's really what you guys have achieved.

I know it's something that it's ongoing and it continues to evolve, but you know, you really are a leader in, in, in driving that culture and good on you. And, and very much about the conversation about it's, it's, know, flexibility for everybody. It's not just about working moms. That's so true. And I think we get focused on that women need flexibility, but what about, you know, for instance, I wouldn't have been able to achieve in my career without my husband's support and without us being parents together. And, and, and that means that he needs flexibility in his work environment as well, but we're not having enough of those conversations and you know, and congratulations on making that happen in your workplace.

You should be really proud of that.

Cyan Ta'eed (11:17)
Thanks. Look, I mean, you know, I always feel like we're still trying to get it right. And it's so tricky to get it all, you know, right, really good, holistic parental leave programs, which sort of ensure not only that, you know, we have all the policies in place, but, but management is really, you know, like the sort of the people leaders are supporting people while they're on parental leave, trying to encourage men to take up part time and job share, you know, all those things, it's sort of, it's process of getting it right and there's still a lot more that I would, you know, that I'd like to do and a lot of times I think, oh goodness, we really need to do better here. So it is a work in progress, I think.

Caroline Kennedy (11:56)
Yeah, but the fact that it's a priority for you in the workplace is the key really, because you've taken that step, many more steps than a lot of other companies have.

Cyan Ta'eed (12:07)
Well, I think when you're, luckily I think that when you're really sort of genuinely trying to do a good job of this stuff, I think, you know, your team tends to be pretty forgiving of the bumps along in the journey.

Caroline Kennedy (12:19)
And there are many bumps. So time management is a big issue for any business owner. What tips and tricks can you share around maximising your time, particularly during business hours?

Cyan Ta'eed (12:21)
You made that.

I used to be very reactive to email and now I try to focus on doing a quick pass of my email in the morning and then setting aside an hour in the afternoon to really sort of make sure that I bat out as many emails as possible. It sounds like a small thing but it's made a massive difference to me I think and I also used to.

I'm an R over emails and sort of, and, not make decisions immediately and shifting to, okay, I just, you know, as soon as I see it, I'm responding to it and I'm setting aside the time to, do you know, to respond to these things properly and then it's done. that has made a big difference to me, which doesn't, you know, I still check my email now and then I still sort of, you know, I still, you know, need to stay across it. Of course, it'd be unrealistic to say that you don't, but I think, it's for me at least.

I found that I became a lot more productive when I sort of really tried to limit it and stopped seeing it as something that was controlling me, but rather something that I was, yes, in control of at key times during my day. And going in hand in hand, that was trying to clear out some time in my schedule to really do some thinking, some strategic thinking about...

Caroline Kennedy (13:31)
Control off.

Cyan Ta'eed (13:44)
...how I was prioritising, what were not the most pressing things, but the most important things for me to be focusing on, how I could progress towards the big goals. Having a couple of blocks of time during the week, preferably in the morning, where I could focus in on that has been really essential to my productivity.

I think otherwise, you know, if you're, know, anybody in business is very easy to feel reactive. You're being pulled in so many different reactions, different directions. And it means that sometimes the big strategic pieces, the big sort of, you know, the things that are really going to shift the dial get lost. making time for those I found is extremely important. And I have to say up until I wasn't doing enough of that this year, the sort of the Telstra.

The Telstra win and then sort of all the sort of opportunities that came from that, were absolutely amazing, meant that I got quite reactive for a while there. So just in the last couple of months, regaining control of that has been really a big positive again. And I realized, wow, I really sort of was getting quite reactive in my workflow for a while.

Caroline Kennedy (14:47)
And I think that that comes down to the awareness of it as well, because so many people don't have awareness on how reactive they are in business. And I totally agree with you and what you've described your strategies and your tips are exactly what I do. You know, I set aside a certain amount of time during the day for my emails and yes, I might see them pop in, but I'm focused on the task at hand. And generally that's about.

You know, how am I being strategic? How am I growing the business? What does that look like? What do we need to do? And really focused on the outcomes. and it, really helps, I suppose, as well with your team when they see you lead that way as well, then they tend to pick up those, those tricks and tips as well. Yeah. Now what.

Cyan Ta'eed (15:32)
It's true.

Caroline Kennedy (15:34)
The biggest lessons you've learnt in business and I'm sure you've learnt many because I know we all have.

Cyan Ta'eed (15:40)
Biggest tips I've learned in business? Look, I guess there's a whole bunch of stuff on a personal level and there's a whole bunch of stuff on a company level. So I think, you know, the last 10 years have been the whole thing is a massive learning curve. It continues to be a massive learning curve. I've never gotten to a point where I thought, yeah, I'm comfortable. I've got this now. I always feel like I'm hustling and trying to learn and trying to keep up with what the needs of the business are right now.

And that goes for everything from finance to legal to HR to leadership to the whole deal. There are inherent challenges along the way with any growing business. And I used to think that maybe it was just me who was uncomfortable, but the more sort of business leaders I speak to, know, particularly sort of entrepreneurs with fast growing businesses, the more I realized, no, we're all pretty uncomfortable all the time and that's okay. Yeah. It's, meant to be uncomfortable when you're growing.

It's meant to be a bit uncomfortable. And the trick of it is to get comfortable being uncomfortable and sort of back yourself. I think, I have also learned that, that, know, early on, think I, I had this. I had a very different position to failure than I have now. I used to sort of really beat myself up when there was a perceived failure and I perceived myself failing pretty much constantly. And now I sort of, I try and reposition it as learnings and try and learn as much as I can out of every, you know, every sort of situation that I come across. And that allows me to sort of push myself a little bit harder and get into uncomfortable situations a little bit more.

And most of the time the stuff that I'm beating myself up about is what other people think of me anyway. And I'm trying to let go of that and trying to sort of instead think okay well how can I give the most value, how can I learn the most in this situation, you know, has been very freeing and very helpful and allowed me to sort of set my goals a lot higher.

Caroline Kennedy (17:36)
I heard you once say that a truly confident and capable person isn't afraid to look stupid. And I really love that because being authentic, honest about the fact that we're not perfect is so important in a world where we tend to put everybody on a pedestal. And it really encourages us to embrace the fact that there is no perfection and that it's okay to look silly occasionally. We're just human, you know.

Cyan Ta'eed (18:03)
Yes, yeah. what sort of led me to this was that I sort of, I suddenly realized that I did this talk on imposter syndrome. So I was asked by a tech women's group to do a talk on imposter syndrome and the confidence gap. And they said, we've asked, you know, like four or five other people to do it. And everyone said, no, do you think you can give this a go? And I started out by writing you know, sort of a quite a sort of a theoretical talk about the sort of the statistics behind it and that sort of thing.

And I realised, well, look, I'm not a sort of, I'm not a professional in this space. I really, you know, I'm going off a few articles that I've read, but what I did have was personal experience. And I ended up speaking about, about sort of my own experiences with imposter syndrome, my own experiences with the confidence gap and what I'd done to try and sort of try and shift my thinking.

And afterwards, I was really struck by how many women came up and said me too. Yeah, incredibly capable women women that I would never have imagined would sort of feel this way. So I said, goodness, I feel like an imposter all the time. I feel like I need to sort of, you know, not ask questions in case I look stupid constantly. And I thought, well, why are we all talking about this? This freed me up such a huge amount to know that I was not the only person in the room who, you know, it felt like sometimes I, you know, I wasn't getting it, who sort of, felt like I, you know, that I actually shouldn't be there, that I might be found out. So that was incredibly freeing for me.

Caroline Kennedy (19:32)
I love that because for many years I've suffered as well with imposter syndrome and it actually held me back until I realized that and became aware that it was holding me back. would feel, especially being, for me, a female in predominantly male dominated environments and, particularly old school male environments, would feel really intimidated to speak up in case I look stupid, even though I knew that I could really contribute to the conversation.

And once I not let it go, because I don't think you ever let it go, you just become aware of it and think, I'm not going to let this limit me. And then I decided I would speak up and I couldn't care less if they thought I was stupid or not, because I had something to say and I really wanted to take a seat at that table and own it.

And even to this day, know, I, the imposter syndrome is about, will I get found out? Am I good enough? You know, but that's also what drives me to be the best that I can be and to continue to learn and develop and grow and have a bit of humility about what I do as well.

Cyan Ta'eed (20:44)
Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. think, and I think what the funny thing is, is that, know, me listening to you with, all your achievements in the industry that you've been in and just your level of success saying that I think, goodness, that's just so, so silly that you'd feel that way. But I think we all, you know, we all in our hearts or, you know, most of the people that I know. And then as well, I would argue too, you know.

Why do few men listen to when I speak about imposter syndrome and the confidence gap and go, yeah, I'm there, I get it. So I don't think it's exclusively a gender thing, but I do think as women we do tend to sort of to feel it and beat ourselves up. One of the things that I always think to myself which really helps me is to think, okay, my goal is not to look like the smartest person in this room. My goal is to be the smartest person in that room. And that frees me up to ask questions and to sort of be bit more experimental and try and figure things out on the fly. And that's very helpful. Because otherwise, yeah, you can become paralysed by trying to look like you're smart.

Caroline Kennedy (21:48)
Yeah, yeah, I love that saying that is so perfect. Now you founded a new day box in 2013, an initiative that mobilises women to make gifts for women in domestic violence crisis situations. So tell us about that.

Cyan Ta'eed (22:04)
So that kind of happened by accident to be quite honest, as many of the great things in life do. I was seven months pregnant and I came across an article about a group in Canada who were delivering shoe boxes full of skincare and cosmetics to women in crisis of Christmas. I had this sort of slightly on the whim thought of yeah, well what if we did something like that for women in domestic family violence crisis over Christmas? Okay, I'll write an email to a couple of organisations and see if there's any need for that. And really what I was envisaging was maybe the Envato team put together 30 or 40 boxes to deliver out.

One of those organisations that I contacted instead sent my email, forwarded my email with my phone number and my email address to basically every family violence crisis worker in the state and said, you know, if you want to box contacts, I am. So I spent the next few days on the phone to these women who were working with women in domestic violence crisis over the year and particularly talking to me about the Christmas period and about how often they would arrive with their children and the clothes on their backs, that they would be focusing on making Christmas a special time for their kids.

And often there were always presents for the kids, but there was never anything for these women. And it was in fact an extremely harrowing and difficult time, as you might imagine. And at the end of every phone call, I'd say, yep, I will get you boxes. And by the end of those few days, I'd committed, I calculated, I'd committed to getting out about 500 boxes. So I was due to have a baby on the 25th of December. So it wasn't the most practical plan I've ever had. But I just happened to sit next to four really incredible women at Envato who I think, you know, had heard many of these phone conversations and I'd been keeping them across what was going on.

And they all had sort of quite relevant skill sets. And when I turned around to them and said, what do you think? They said, yeah, let's all do it together. So that was a really incredible blessing because it meant that there's no way I would have been able to do it by myself. But because I had these incredible women working alongside me, we basically just sent out a call to everybody in our networks and it turns out our combined networks and those people combined networks had a really incredible reach because we got two and a half thousand boxes that Christmas and we delivered them to women in domestic violence crisis around Victoria.

And so it was such a sort of a successful event and it seemed to be really cathartic to the women making the boxes because I think there was an immediacy to it. There was some, know, with something like the scourge of family violence, it feels like such a massive, difficult problem to solve, so impossible to address. And I think something that allows people to say, okay, I'm just going to do something which might help a woman to hang on for a little while longer.

I think meant a lot. It meant a lot to me and it meant a lot to many of the women I think who got involved and have been involved these last three years. And some of them had experienced family violence in the past and we had some men get involved who had experienced family violence as children as well. And what it really brought up for me was the sheer number of women and men at Envato and you know we have about 280 staff and the sheer number of people who'd had direct personal experience, who'd been in crisis accommodation as children, who'd had direct experiences both as children and as adults and the of the verve and the tenacity that they got behind this project. It just made me realise how immediate this problem actually is.

So I can, you we continue to do New Day Box every year. It's just a little thing that, you know, it's not solving the big problems. But I think for the women receiving that we get these amazing letters from the women receiving the boxes. And they just say, you know, it's just really nice to know that there are people out there in the community who care and who wanted me to have a nice Christmas day. And we get enough these days that we deliver them out on Mother's Day as well which is really, really lovely. So, yeah, so it's just an ongoing project that we do every year.

Caroline Kennedy (26:29)
And you're right when you say sometimes, you know, when you look at the problem, you think, it's just so big, there's no way we can solve it. But if everyone contributes a little bit, it can just brighten up somebody's day, like you said, you know, and really help make their lives a little bit easier for that one moment in time.

Cyan Ta'eed (26:46)
I think there are incredible organisations who are doing great work around education and prevention and keeping women and children safe. And they really deserve our support. This is a good sort of hands-on thing to do around Christmas time and sort of, it's also a gentle way to introduce the issues. There are a lot of women that I know and myself included who get their young children and particularly their boys involved in making boxes and have an early sort of gentle loving conversation about sort of, know, family violence prevention and about, you know, the importance of how we sort of treat one another and how we care for one another. So, yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (27:28)
And that's an important part in the process is the conversation and the prevention and the education, it? To sort of try and stop it for the future. It's just the awareness.

Cyan Ta'eed (27:41)
Look, I think so. I'm not an expert in this space at all. I've learned a lot over last few years. I think, but I think, you know, this is my sort of, you know, one of my contributions to it. It's just that, you know, hopefully it keeps some, it sort of raises awareness a little bit. gets people introduced to the subject in a sort of a, you know, feel good, light way, which I mean, it can be a pretty heavy subject. you know, any way that we can get people to start thinking about it in the space I think is a good starting point.

Caroline Kennedy (28:11)
Yep. Now you mentioned your two beautiful boys before, and I wanted to talk to you about how do you manage family life while running a highly successful and I'm sure very demanding business.

Cyan Ta'eed (28:24)
Well, it's obviously, you know, we're all juggling the various things in our lives. I think there's a few things that have helped me. One of them is to just have my have clarity around my not negotiables. So my sort of the things that I'm just not willing to do. So I'm not willing to travel occasionally, really, know, most of the time I, if I possibly can, say no, because if I'm not around during the day, I want to be at home in the evenings. I want to be, you know, there, you know, between that five and seven PM window when they're awake and they're running around and I can spend some time with them. And while I'm there with them, I want to make sure that I don't have the phone in my hand that I'm putting, you know, I'm putting my phone away, putting it onto airplane mode if I, you know, if I possibly can.

So really, think for me, it's about defining and carving out that quality time and ensuring that I'm sort of, you know, that I'm sort of doing those things, I'm present and doing those things that are really, really important to me and the family and being really present while I'm there. I, you know.

I know that I was speaking to Christina Carlson, the founder of Kiki K, and she said that doing the kinder drop off in the morning is absolutely paramount to her. she makes sure that she positions, she sort of moves her day around so that she can be present for that. I think it's about making those choices. I think it's also about having a really, present partner, a partner that sort of will do their share. I'm very lucky that my husband, he was raised by parents who modeled this sort of example of both parents are raising the children, both parents pitching in and doing the housework, making the dinner. I wouldn't be able to do it without Collis and his support. He's there, he moves things around.

I always feel, we don't have any family here. We don't have any family in Melbourne. And I'm always very grateful for what an active role he takes. Obviously, in a perfect world, every sort of parent would take an equal share in the care of their children. But the reality of it is that that's often not the case.

Caroline Kennedy (30:40)
Especially when they're young, I think as well.

Cyan Ta'eed (30:42)
Yeah, and I think it's, look, it's tricky because, you know, that first, you know, first little while they're really attached to mom. So I think, you know, if you don't sort of make a conscious effort to get out of those, out of those habits, the mother's going to become, you know, the primary caregiver by default.

Caroline Kennedy (30:59)
Yep, yep, absolutely agree with that. We're lucky to have these men in our lives that just contribute, that are there, that participate and it's co-parenting.

Cyan Ta'eed (31:02)
Yeah. It is and it takes a certain sort of strengths. know, when I first spoke to, you know, we've got a couple of men who do part-time roles now so they can be at home with their kids. And oftentimes it's to also, you know, support the careers of their partners. you know, both the examples, both the two men that I'm thinking about in this case, both said, you know, I feel conscious of what other people think, that I'm not motivated enough, I'm not driven enough.

And it's not the case, it's that I want to be there to support my family, but there's this assumption that we have, this unconscious sort of pressure that men and women put on men, which is a desirable man is the provider and he's ambitious and he's out there earning the money and being powerful. But that doesn't facilitate a man to have balance and support his partner in their career as well.

Caroline Kennedy (32:03)
That's such an archaic view and, but it is widely out there. but I won't get started on that because I'll never stop, but I agree with you. absolutely. Now, finally, what does the future look like for you?

Cyan Ta'eed (32:17)
You know, it's interesting. I've been trying to carve out some time with, you know, just sort of outside of work to try and sort of get a bit of space in work to really get some clarity about what the next couple of years looks like because I'm transitioning farther and farther out of operational roles at Novato, which is sort of the right, the right sort of move for me long term. And then it becomes, okay, what can I do, which not only adds the most value to the business, but what also adds, you know, what's, you know, how am I going to deliver the most value out into the world, which sounds like a, you know, cheesy way to think about it.

But, but it's true, you know, if you're going to sort of, you know, think about it, how do I add big value? How do I sort of, you know, a bit of, yeah, make difference. so actually I'm doing some thinking about that, about that at the moment, because I can see that there's going to come.

Caroline Kennedy (32:59)
A difference?

Cyan Ta'eed (33:09)
A time within Vato where I'm going to transition further and further out of the day to day and I'll still be directing strategy and I'll still be hands on in certain spaces, but there's going to be time and there's going to be space. So then it becomes, right, well, what exactly does that look like? I don't know. I'm particularly passionate about a whole bunch of different things, which we probably don't have time to get into.

But they're trying to decide on what you're going to focus on and trying to sort of set some big lofty goals so you know what you're working towards. takes a bit of space and time. So I'm trying to find that right now.

Caroline Kennedy (33:50)
Hmm. Well, we'll have to check in with you in, you know, the coming months and see what progress you've made. Great. Yeah. So thank you so much, Cyan, for your time today. I really do appreciate it. You're welcome.

Cyan Ta'eed (34:04)
Thank you for having me.