Ep. 36 Maria Mavrikos, Founder & Managing Director of Structural Challenge – The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 33: Maria Mavrikos, Founder & Managing Director of Structural Challenge

Caroline Kennedy (00:01.597)
Welcome to the Honour CEO Show. I'm your host Caroline Kennedy. And today I'm thrilled to be joined by Maria Mavrikos. She's the founder and managing director of Structural Challenge and Steel Chicks. Maria entered the steel industry at the ripe old age of 19, an uncommon path for a woman at that time. And in 2000, she founded Structural Challenge. Now a leading player in complex steel fabrication with a turnover of 40 million dollars annually. And they've worked on lots of high-end projects including like the Commonwealth Games Village. Maria is a fierce advocate for women in the industry. She's founded Steel Chicks a couple of years ago, a social enterprise empowering women through mentorship, training and networking.

Her impact has earned her multiple awards, including the NAWIC Crystal Vision Award and the Hellenic Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry Business Excellence Award. Now that was a mouthful because you've earned some great awards, but welcome to the show, Maria.

Maria Mavrikos (01:18.284)
Hi and thanks for having me.

Caroline Kennedy (01:20.531)
You're welcome. We're so excited to have you here and for you to share your journey with us. So you entered the industry or you started structural challenge at the ripe old age of 19. What drew you into this field and what were your early experiences?

Maria Mavrikos (01:40.63)
Okay, so I don't think as a young Greek immigrant girl you think that you're ever going to be in the construction industry and it's something that definitely my parents weren't aiming for their firstborn daughter. However, it started really by chance. I was at uni starting an arts marketing degree and I needed a part-time job.

I started working for a very, very small fabricator, just doing basic admin and payroll. And that's how I started when I was 19. I was lucky enough that the owner of the business was very hands on and would handball stuff to me. So he taught me how to estimate. taught me not a world but I could understand the gist of welding and the properties of steel and that sort of led to me falling in love with the industry really.

Caroline Kennedy (02:48.123)
Yeah. And I think too, also it takes courage to start a business in an industry that perhaps, you know, you don't have a family history of or anything like that. And you jump straight into it and you started structural challenge, which obviously is a thriving business, motivated you to then say, I don't want to be an employee anymore. I want to run a business and I want to be a leader in this field.

Maria Mavrikos (03:19.64)
So I've always loved business. I grew up in family businesses. had my own, I started my first business when I was 13. You know, just something for fun and it was just, I think I've always been entrepreneurial. But then starting my business after having worked for two fabricators, so I had, quite varied experience in the industry and the second fabricator that I worked for was Victoria's Largest Reseller and it was a family owned business and I had really reached the pinnacle of where I was going to be. I was managing their structural division, there was no room to grow, the family was running the business and I thought well I can do this, I think I can do it better, let's give it a shot.

Caroline Kennedy (04:19.077)
Yeah, and like I said before, that is a bold, brave move. And how did you start? Talk us through that. What was it like?

Maria Mavrikos (04:29.004)
Okay, so it was basically me working from home in my study and I started off with the concept that I could project manage projects. So I would take it on and subcontract the different components of a structural steel package. And that worked quite well for probably six months.

But then my clients were wanting more. So they were wanting me to control more of the project. They were asking me to coordinate site more. So it was just a natural sort of progression. And then I actually teamed up with my site subcontractors and started Structural Challenger. So it was me and I employed three boiler makers and I interviewed them in the front yard of the factory that we were going to lease because it still getting built and we were just on plastic chairs and that's how I did their interview and it was quite intimidating actually for me at the time because they were like well who's going to be running it and I'd say me and they'd go what do you mean? They couldn't believe that I would be running the business. But I'm pretty proud to say that one of those Boilermakers is still with me. Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (06:02.723)
Wow, 25 years later. That's quite significant. And I also want to circle back to the fact that they were like, who's going to run it? And the steel industry is traditionally a male dominated industry. And I know you're passionate about changing that and clearly leading the way, but how did you navigate the landscape, particularly at the early stages of your career and the early stages of the business.

Maria Mavrikos (06:36.078)
I don't think I really thought about it at the time. So when I reflect now, I think, well, how did I? I was always the only female on site. was always the, definitely the only female in the factory but it was just sort of like a natural progression. And I think when you enjoy what you do, you just do it and that's not the focus. And it only becomes a focus when someone actually raises it. I would have people like reps come into the factory and say, I wanna speak to the manager. But I am the manager. No, no, the real manager. I don't know how much, how more real you can get, you know? So those sort of things. And there were times where it was frustrating and there's no doubt if some of the things that happened to me now happened, that happened then, you know, there would be definitely causes for harassment and bullying and that kind of thing. But I think I just had thick skin or I don't know, I think I was just on my own journey and I enjoyed what I did and I and I also probably wanted to prove a few of those guys from as well.

Caroline Kennedy (07:49.843)
Yeah, and that you did clearly. And it's interesting because people that I interview that have come up through male dominated industries and I asked them that question and they generally say, I just didn't think about it. It just wasn't an obstacle. And if I thought about it, then I'd probably drive myself insane. I just got to get on with it. And like you said about having that thick skin, I think that's really important because we can put people put boundaries on us, but we don't have to live or work within those boundaries. We can choose how we want to show up and break those boundaries too. And you're a prime example of that.

Maria Mavrikos (08:31.01)
Yeah, I totally agree. I think having started so young as well, I think you're more of a risk taker when you're young and you kind of don't care as much. and I think sometimes when you're faced with some of those obstacles, out of maybe stubbornness or arrogance, or you just want to do better and you want to prove people wrong and you want to also prove to yourself that you can. And I don't think our gender should define what we can and can't do.

Caroline Kennedy (09:04.125)
Yep. I completely agree with that. And starting any business is never easy and particularly one that's had the longevity of 25 years. Most of them don't get past the five years and only actually 1 % of businesses get past the million dollars as well. So you've ticked a lot of boxes in terms of longevity and success. And I'm sure there are lots of ups and downs as there are with all businesses, but what hurdles did you encounter particularly in the early days, growing the business and how did you overcome them?

Maria Mavrikos (09:42.014)
been so many really. mean, you know, we're dictated very much by the economy and, you know, the ups and downs of probably being the biggest challenge that I've had as a business owner. You know, riding that wave of construction when it's good, it's great and when it's bad, it's really bad. But understanding that it is a wave is part of it and continually on and being focused on what your values are, focusing on quality, I think has always got us through. know, financial things when I started when I was younger that I didn't, you know, I had no idea really, like, I didn't know about how tax worked and things like that. So a lot of it was just learning on the run, probably a lot of mistakes along the way, you make a mistake once, you generally don't make it again when it's your own money. So the hurdles have been many, but I would call them more like learnings, to be honest.

Caroline Kennedy (10:52.625)
Yeah, yeah. And I always say that you either win or you learn but you grow more through the learnings even though at the time it's quite painful but then when you have hindsight you realise just how significantly you grew through that too. And the other thing I want to circle back to is what you talked about the financial elements and I share this story because a lot of people think you have to have skills in all different areas. And I remember my first role as an executive and sitting in the boardroom with the executive management team and the CEO and they had a P and L and I probably shared this story with you. And I remember looking at the P and L going, my God, what is this thing? How am I ever going to make head nor tails? And all I did was sit quietly and observe everybody and then showed up again and did the same thing. And then within time and a small timeline as well, I could read that thing in and out and backwards and then the data would tell a story. So it's okay to not have knowledge as long as you then think, how do I grow? How do I develop? How do I get that knowledge? And it does come through experience a lot of the time too.

Maria Mavrikos (12:13.986)
Yeah, definitely. And you've got to be open to learning and you've also got to surround yourself with the right people. So going back to what you said about you don't need to know everything, but surround yourself with the people that know a little bit more than you. And I always say that I try to employ people that are smarter than me because I continually can learn from them.

Caroline Kennedy (12:35.057)
Yeah. Not a lot of business owners think like that. And it's unconscious too. They feel like they have to be the genius. And I always talk about that if you employ people that are smarter than you, then they help you level up that genius. And also too, you don't always have to have all the answers. And sometimes leaders think they do, but help drag the answers out of people and help create other geniuses within your business as well. And I think once you do that, that leads to like so much critical thinking in the business too. And it's not just the responsibility of the business owner or the CEO to be that person to come up with the ideas or to problem solve. It's very much around there's a collaboration in problem solving and critically thinking too.

Maria Mavrikos (13:31.532)
Yeah, definitely and it allows you to be a bit more innovative as well when you have, you know, different points of view and different levels of expertise or experience.

Caroline Kennedy (13:44.913)
Yeah. Yeah, very much so. Because people do think differently and being open to that diversity and thinking. Yeah. So you've been involved in many notable projects over the years. I know some of them you can't talk about because of confidentiality. But how did these opportunities come about and how did they impact the business?

Maria Mavrikos (14:13.006)
predominantly we're in a tendering market. So we tender on projects. We're approached by builders to tender on projects based on what we've generally done in the past. Definitely that was, you know, challenging at the beginning. However, I did have a pretty good network of people that I had dealt with when I started and basically they gave me opportunities to quote and you know, we were successful on some and not successful on most to start off with. And as the years progressed, one of the things that I wanted to do when I started Structural Challenge was to do things differently. And I knew I had to because I was the only female at the time that had started a business and I knew there'd be a level of, know, when I started there were things like people were saying things like, you'll be broke in a year, this won't work out. So I knew I had to do things differently. And traditionally, we're quite an old fashioned kind of business. Usually, boilermakers or draftsmen that have decided to run their own business. not many at the time, now is a little bit different, but that were from a business background, which I was from, that would start the business. So I knew I had to do things differently and that was something that was sort of at the forefront of every sort of decision that I made. And one of the biggest things was professionalism, which really was quite low when I started in the industry. And, you know, I put procedures and processes in place and my admin was, you know, excellent compared to what the industry was used to. And I think that really cemented our position and cemented us as what sort of fabricator we were. And then going back to employing people that are smarter than me, I employed some of the best people in the industry after probably the first or second year, once they realised that I hadn't gone broke. And they helped me grow the other side, which I think in our industry is really important, which is quality. So our quality far exceeds the industry standard and that's something that I've lived and breathed over the last 25 years.

Caroline Kennedy (16:44.795)
Yeah. And I think what you've said there is about being innovative and innovation doesn't have to mean tech. It just means doing things differently or challenging the norms of an industry and or the standards of an industry and saying, well, how do we do this a little bit differently or how do we disrupt the way it's done to raise the standards? And, and I want to kind of emphasise that for our listeners because I think innovation has it's a buzzword and a word that a lot of people think you have to really disrupt or you have to you know have technology that's introduced technology that's really advanced but sometimes it's the basic things that you do and the problems that you solve and problems are opportunities right and you've just described not necessarily problems within the industry, but they were standards and you saw that those standards could be elevated and you could have a point of difference as a result of that and make it more streamlined for the end user. And that's not rocket science either when you think about it. People want their lives to be easier and if you can make people's lives easier, then they're going to love you. I mean, I'm sure you know that as a leader, anyone in your team that makes your life easier. They're a godsend, right? Yeah.

Maria Mavrikos (18:14.958)
Yeah, definitely. And I think the whole innovation piece, like you said, people do think it's just technology, whereas I just think it's better ideas, like light bulb ideas. And when you get a group of people together and you present them with a problem, chances are everyone's got a different way of tackling that problem. And definitely my way of tackling it's not always the best. There's some great things that have come out of some of the group work that I've done with my team on things and you know just small incremental things that we've done differently or what I say let's try to do it better and it does get recognised.

Caroline Kennedy (19:02.963)
Yeah, yeah. And it's incremental. I like that you said that as well. It doesn't have to be massive changes incremental over time, get big gains. Yeah. Um, and I want to talk about Steel Chicks, where you started that a couple of years ago. Uh, and, and I love your passion for empowering women and what I suppose when you started out, what was the goal or the aim that you had in mind in terms of Steel Chicks?

Maria Mavrikos (19:38.99)
So Still Chicks is very much a love project. It's a social enterprise which I started to more formalise some of the things that I was doing organically within Structural Challenge and just personally as well. So over the years I've mentored numerous females in the industry and males as well but you know, it's always been a passion of mine to help other women get into the industry. Also, the programs that I run through structural challenge in terms of work experience, internships and grads, which is something that's not that it's very common within the builder market, but not with the subcontractor market. And sometimes things happen in your life that kind of say you got to do it now and I had something that came up with me two years ago now. And it was like, okay, it's time to do this. It's time to actually put in practice and give back to the industry and also follow this idea that I had that I could make a huge difference.

So we launched Steel Chicks in March of last year and it's been a whirlwind of interest within the industry. We're completely overwhelmed with the support that we've had. And it just comes to show how much it was required and the industry was craving for it. So we basically set up to know, our main focus is our networking and our training and to help women that want to come into the industry or come back into the industry, but also just expose young females to this industry that they probably don't even know exists. And it's going great. It's very exciting. It's opened up, it's taking on its own life and I'm sort of following what clients are wanting. And yeah, we're really excited about what we've got in store for this year, which the first thing that we're going to do is launch our mentoring program. And it's something that I think the industry really has lacked.

Caroline Kennedy (22:23.665)
Yeah. And I think even though it's a passion project, this is somewhat innovative in itself, right? Because you saw a problem and you saw there was demand and you solved the problem with the solution, even though I know you're doing it from a place of impact and from a place of genuinely wanting to, to have that broader impact and to see women and to empower women to come into the industry. But it is another example of problem solution. And then how can we help support women and more women in the industry. And it sounds like it's just taking off because there was massive demand for it, which is fantastic. It's a good sign that you are innovating and problem solving, right?

Maria Mavrikos (23:21.792)
Yeah, yeah and it's a passion project but it's also, I've set it up as a social enterprise and I think that's really important to raise because my goal here is not really to make money out of this. I do well in the main business. That wasn't my focus. My focus here is, well, what we can do to help the industry, transform the industry, which is something that we tend to say a little bit, but also help empower women in a way that is inclusive and also safe.

Caroline Kennedy (24:07.207)
Yeah. And I like that word safe. think that's really important to create that environment for women to feel safe and to be surrounded by people who've walked the path before them or to be surrounded by younger women who are entering the workforce and to be role models for them. It kind of has that loop. And when you say social enterprise, and what I find really interesting about that is that even though your goal is not commercial, obviously from a commercial perspective, the more commercially viable it is, the bigger the impact too, right? Because then you're reinvesting back into having that broader impact, which is smart. And why it will be so successful, I have no doubt about it because of that, because you're always thinking about the broader impact that it will have as you continue to grow and develop it. Yeah.

Maria Mavrikos (25:03.534)
Yeah, definitely.

Caroline Kennedy (25:05.617)
Now reflecting on your journey, what key leadership lessons have you learned?

Maria Mavrikos (25:14.062)
Probably the first one is follow your gut, your instincts and have trust in your decision making. Surround yourself with great people, which is something that I've sort of mentioned a few times, and create a really good culture for them to work in. And I say to my team, spend more time here than you do at home. You need to enjoy what you do. If you don't enjoy what you do, go and find something that you do enjoy.

What else? They're probably the two main things and the other thing is be passionate about what you do because if you're passionate about what you do it's easier to do it. doesn't feel like work, it feels like fun.

Caroline Kennedy (26:08.635)
Yeah, yeah. I agree with that too. And a lot of people out there are not, you know, they struggle to find that passion and that's okay. It comes to some people and doesn't come to others. But what I loved about what you said before was the culture of a business and that's so critical and focusing on that culture is really critical because you've had a lot of longevity with your team members, right? And probably because that's been a big focus for you too.

Maria Mavrikos (26:44.3)
When we started the business, one of the first things I did was set a group of values. And people were like, what's that? It's just jargon. It's just no substance in it. But we live and breathe our values in our business. And we've had the same values for the last 25 years; my team members know what they are and they know that that's how we operate. So it's created a culture of respect, of commitment, of safety, of excellence. And that's just how we operate. And people know that if they deal with structural challenge or if they work with structural challenge, that's what they're going to get.

Caroline Kennedy (27:34.021)
Yeah, yeah. And it informs behavior. And a lot of people don't necessarily recognise that. Because once you're clear on your values, then you know the non-negotiable with behaviors in the workplace, right? And it helps organisations and people to be able to have clarity around what the expectations are, particularly from a behavioral perspective.

You know, I've worked with some organisations where they can lose sight of that and then people's behaviors are incongruent with the values, but they don't necessarily reinforce that or call that out because they're not conscious of it to a certain degree because they're not thinking about it. And then once they start to become conscious about it, then they can start to put those boundaries in place and say, well, these are our expectations and this is a non-negotiable.

And then they get the right people and they, I find that once they're able to introduce that the culture thrives, they have high performing individuals, people who are passionate about what they want to do. They're accountable. They come to work and they're really invested in it.

Whereas when they're not living the values, can create toxic environments. And then they're kind of thinking, what is this? How do we get to this place? And all it is is deviation from the values without necessarily being aware that people have deviated.

Maria Mavrikos (29:07.244)
Yeah, so well said and it also extends with your clients. We try to align ourselves with clients that have the same values as us and that way the synergy between our working relationships are really strong and the same with our suppliers and our subcontractors. We're very vocal about them. We talk about them so they all know what the expectations are and what the norms are. It's kind of, this is what we do day to day, this is how we act, this is how we perform and these are the expectations and it doesn't leave anything open to sort of interpretation because it's there in black and white.

Caroline Kennedy (29:51.409)
Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. It's like a pathway, isn't it? It's like a guidance to where you want to go. So what are your plans for structural challenge? Are there any big projects that you can talk about that you're excited about?

Maria Mavrikos (30:14.254)
there is. Well, we just finished, I can talk about it now, but we just finished Metro Tunnel. So that went on for a couple of years. And, you know, that was an exciting, you know, sort of project because it was constantly in the news and still is in the news. And we also did the Arden station, which was the first of the main stations which is, you know, won a numerous amount of awards and it's just, you know, it's a great project. And at the moment we're working on a number of data centers, which seems to be the main sort of type of work that's around at the moment. And we also have just finished the round of hospitals with the Victorian government funding. So Royal Melbourne and Sunshine Hospital.

Caroline Kennedy (31:12.047)
Hmm. They're significant projects and clearly you guys are a leader in your field being able to, to secure those projects as well. So well done. As we wrap up, I want to ask you, what kind of legacy do you hope to leave in the steel industry?

Maria Mavrikos (31:24.248)
Thank you. I think the legacy is the effect that I've had on the people that have worked for me. And I'd like to think that I've helped them grow both in their careers and personally. And also the opportunities that I've given quite a few young people, both male and female, to actually get into the industry and thrive. Some stayed, some have moved on to other things, but a lot of them still keep in contact and that gives me a lot of satisfaction and pride that I know that I've had some effect on their lives.

Caroline Kennedy (32:24.819)
Yeah, yeah. And to our listeners, I just want to say that Maria is a very humble individual and I know that would have been very difficult for her to answer. She's always about other people and having an impact on other people. And when you talk about her legacy, she kind of it's and it's always it's about others, right? You just answer that it's about others. You're like legacy. Oh, I don't know about that. But you will clearly have a legacy and particularly with Steel Chicks.

And what would you like to see the impact of Steel Chicks, like the goal there? What does success look like for you to go, we've made an impact, we've achieved what we wanted to achieve.

Maria Mavrikos (33:07.916)
Yeah, so there's a social procurement policy that exists in Victoria and most of the other states and it nominates percentages of participation by women both in office and in a trade environment. My goal would be to help as many businesses as possible reach those requirements.

Caroline Kennedy (33:34.811)
And what are the requirements?

Maria Mavrikos (33:36.974)
There's a number of requirements in terms of number of tradespeople, traineeships, apprentices and also in office roles like 24 % of women to be in management positions and it actually is different project to project as well sometimes depending on the project and the funding that it gets, helping, I mean, there's some fabricators that have nothing. They can't even get 1 % on any of the scales of that, but helping them increase what they've already got is my goal.

Caroline Kennedy (34:21.573)
Yeah. And what is the industry standard right now?

Maria Mavrikos (34:25.834)
it's to be honest pitiful, especially when it comes to female apprentices. We've got a female apprentice at the moment, our first. We had a female apprentice that started but didn't work out, but now we've got a young, very young straight out of high school girl and she is absolutely excited by being in the industry. She's so excited about picking up a welding machine and welding. think hopefully her excitement's gonna rub off on some of the guys that have been around for a long time. And that for me is huge, the opportunity because traditionally females are not thought to be in a trade role, but not everyone's academic.

Caroline Kennedy (34:59.891)
I love that.

Maria Mavrikos (35:22.136)
Some people like working with their hands and this is a great way for them to do it.

Caroline Kennedy (35:27.559)
Yeah, yeah. And for any of our listeners out there that are interested in pursuing a career in this industry or even coming back to a career or even just wanting to be surrounded by women in the industry, check out Steel Chicks and get along to their events.

And even if you're not in the industry, get along to their events as well, because you'll be surrounded by women who are empowering each other. And we need more of that. So thank you for all that you do, Maria.

Maria Mavrikos (36:01.507)
Yeah. No, it's my pleasure and in terms of our events, even though we're called still chicks, I think at some point the name will change because we're attracting women just from all different industries and we're finding that they're coming to events because they've found a place where they can network, they can have fun, they can learn and they walk away feeling empowered and confident in what they're doing in their male-dominated industry.

Caroline Kennedy (36:38.085)
Yeah, yeah. Well, well done, because we need more of that. And thank you for starting it and making that impact. And thanks so much for being here today. I really appreciate it. We've loved hearing your story and I know our listeners will love it too. And go check Maria out.

Maria Mavrikos (36:47.938)
No, thank you.

Caroline Kennedy (37:00.547)
And as I said before, go to her events too and meet her because she truly is empowering. And to our listeners, if you've been inspired by Maria's journey, don't forget to subscribe to the Honest CEO Show for more insightful conversations. Thank you for listening to us today and we really appreciate it. And thanks Maria.