Ep. 43 Rachel Donath, Founder of Rachel Donath– The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 43: Rachel Donath, Founder of Rachel Donath

Caroline Kennedy (00:01.48)
Welcome to the Honest CEO Show, the podcast where we strip away the titles and talk about leadership and what that really looks like. I'm your host, Caroline Kennedy. Today, my guest is a creative force who's reshaping the world of design and entrepreneurial ship in equal measures. Rachel isn't just a designer, she's a visionary who turned a deeply personal aesthetic into a global business. From sourcing one of a kind pieces from across the world to being featured in the most iconic interiors, she has built a brand that speaks to timeless elegance but bold individuality at the same time. But behind their curated beauty is a story of courage and conviction and reinvention. And this episode is more about about creativity than business, but both at the same time. And it's all about trusting your instincts, building with integrity and knowing when to break the rules. So welcome to the show, Rachel.

Rachel (01:12.834)
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Caroline Kennedy (01:16.115)
So let's go back to the beginning. What was your world like growing up? Did design always have a seat at the table?

Rachel (01:26.232)
So I grew up in a large family. I am the oldest girl with seven siblings. So I was sort of mama bear from a very young age, very responsible, always sort of having to take a bit of a leadership role in the household. So that's always been sort of in my blood, in my DNA. I've never known anything different other than having to be sort of a strong responsible person.

In terms of from a design perspective, I would say that my grandmother, my aunt, there are certain people in my extended family who were very creative people and whose homes really reflected that. So they had extremely unique personal collections of pieces from travels or from, you know, just from their life that they've sort of collected over time. And I definitely really sort of noticed that very early on, I noticed the collections in their homes, whether it was the poshery at my grandmother's house or the textiles that she had sort of collected or sewn herself or with my aunt, some of her quirky sculpture or artworks that she would have all around her home.

And I think from a very young age, I sort of recognised that this is something quite incredible. And I really enjoyed being in those homes and in those spaces.

Caroline Kennedy (02:47.134)
Yeah. Yeah. So for our listeners, tell them a little bit about your business and perhaps then even end with what was the first moment you thought I need to do this my way.

Rachel (03:00.546)
Yeah, so my background is actually corporate. I was in marketing and account management for about 15 years. It was only about five years ago during COVID that I've always been a creative at heart. And I feel like marketing isn't a big way, a very creative exercise and field. But I think that I sort of realised through COVID both through necessity and also through a real sort of feeling of now or never that I wanted to do my own thing.

I wanted to, both from a business perspective, put that effort into building my own brand instead of always building everyone else's brands. And also creatively to do what I love. And what I love is collecting and curating beautiful pieces of furniture. I love home. I love what home represents to me. And I love the idea of empowering others to find that confidence to live authentically and to decorate their homes in a way that feels very personal and true to them. I know the power of that. I know how it makes me feel. I know the power of emerging from a beautiful home out into the world and the impact it has on you psychologically, how it sort of lifts you, how it creates a real sort of optimism going out into the world, how you really feel that you can be the best version of yourself. And I think that home is such a foundational piece of who we are.

And creating a home that just feels like the best version of you, it naturally, it creates us, it makes us the best version of ourselves. And I think that there's a real power in home and the way that we design our homes and curate our space. And that's something that I try and really talk about as much as I can to my customer, to my team. It's the feeling behind the brand. It's the philosophy behind the brand. It's very much fundamental in why I do what I do.

Caroline Kennedy (05:02.248)
Yeah. And from a psychology perspective, I think for the listeners, if you, know, when you put on those pieces of clothing as well, and then you go out into world and you feel very confident. and people talk about that a lot, but they don't necessarily talk about the home element to it and how that translates back into the home as well. And I know for myself with what you've just described.

I like minimalistic and when I'm in an environment or a home that is busy, I actually do not feel comfortable. I feel really uncomfortable. And yet when people walk into my home, what they would say is like my father, for instance, who would say, it just doesn't have warmth, but to me it has warmth because it's minimalistic and it's really clean.

And it's funny how the varying identities can see it very different, which is what you've just described too.

Rachel (06:01.326)
It's very personal. There's no cookie cutter. There's no one size fits all in terms of it's very, very personal. And I find that even when I'm traveling, I pick hotels and whether it's Airbnb or I'm very sensitive to my physical environment and I pick spaces based on the energy of a space and the decor and the fields. think I agree with you. think for someone who feels that a minimalistic feel soulless. They're not going to feel comfortable and happy in their best self. Whereas I'm also probably more like you.

I like spaces that have a lot of, you know, blank, bare areas that sort of, I like that. I like sort of special, really special pieces that have very intentionally been brought into the space. And then everything else to be just clean and empty. And that feels good for me also, but I understand that some people love to have big collections around them and I completely respect and love that and I love spaces. I recognise that personality in spaces and I feel like that person is going to shine coming out of that environment.

Caroline Kennedy (07:06.686)
Yeah, yeah. And before we deep dive, how would you describe the identity you held before the brand existed? Were you already owning kind of that creativity? And I know you talked about marketing being creative, but to that degree that you have it now, like I sense there's a bit of a shift there. I could be wrong, but so yeah, tell me a little bit about the identity you held before and how that shifted now.

Rachel (07:40.684)
I very much always been a collector. I've always been very aware of my home environment. I've always preferred home and interiors to fashion. It's always just been my jam. So in that sense, I've always, you know, gone to markets and brought back beautiful quirky pieces that I love and I've always been doing this. But I think since doing this professionally and putting my eye out there for the world to see and having that feedback that people respect what I'm doing and that I've got an eye and being recognised as having an eye, it's given me a lot of confidence, a lot more confidence to sort of continue to push and stand by my eye effect, you know, ultimately.

Although I've always, I mean, I've always been quite a confident person. I've always been a creative person. I've always been a very resourceful person. I've always sort of sewn and made things myself and found ways to uplift pieces that aren't exactly what I want them to be. So I think through time, since I've had my own space, I've always been very creative and crafty. But definitely now that I'm doing it professionally, I think that I've just allowed myself another layer of that freedom to really sort of express myself.

Caroline Kennedy (08:56.574)
Yeah, yeah, I get a sense of that. Was there a decision early on that felt irrational to others, but made perfect sense to you?

Rachel (09:10.752)
Yes, everything. I think I've never sought other people's approval for anything that I've ever done. I think that I'm very much an independent thinker and an independent doer. I've never, and I've always sort of had that response from others of, you sure? You know, this seems a bit crazy. You've got no training, doubt, but I don't listen to it.

I've got a very strong, and I think it's a natural gift, that I've got a very strong sort of drive and nothing can stop me. So I can listen to others, you know, share their doubts or tell me that it's not realistic or say that I'm being silly. But for me, I genuinely see that as them deflecting their own doubt and insecurity.

And it's not about me because when I actually do it and succeed at it, they're the first people to just open their mouths and say, my God. And I don't, you know, I see where they're coming from and I see how their own sort of mindset limits them in terms of being able to achieve what they want to achieve. But for me, I really lean into that really optimistic mindset of you can do whatever the hell you want to do. Just keep, keep working at it, keep hacking away, keep following that path, that vision, and surround yourself with people, even if it's virtually, even if it's via podcasts and books, if you don't have those people in your network, but just surround yourself with people who encourage you and push you forward and think the world of you and think that you can do anything you wanna do.

Caroline Kennedy (10:54.666)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I would also add to that as well that what Rachel is saying too about the varied mindsets is actually being conscious too. There's a stat that, you know, anywhere from 85 to 92 % of people do not operate consciously and therefore they lack awareness around what lens they're seeing the world. And for the individuals that I find that are pushing with that drive. They're always looking to question. They're always looking to different perspectives, to different lenses, and then they evaluate and move forward on their own. don't necessarily take people's doubts on.

They're able to evaluate it, see it for what it is, see the consciousness of it, and realise that that's that individual's perspective. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's complete reality. And I think that's a really important point for anyone listening is around that consciousness and operating consciously and then surrounding yourself with the right people, you say, or the right messaging and narrative for motivation, whatever it may be to. Yeah.

What piece of advice would you give to someone building a brand based on their unique taste or voice, especially when it's not what the market is asking for yet?

Rachel (12:36.578)
I'm quite conservative financially. So I would say started off as a side hustle, hack away at it, try and build something that you can see a product to market fit. think, you know, there's a difference between a business and a hobby. And I think that needs to be said is that not everything can become a business and it needs to be tested before you sort of put all your eggs in one basket. you know, depending on your situation, you know, risk livelihood or whatever it is, I would say: test it, but test it first as a side hustle, giving it everything you can from, you know, after five o'clock after you finish your day job, like just give it, give it your all. But I think that something needs to be said for having that.

There's got to be product to market fit and that there's also got to be that hunger from the individual as the founder to to push forward because you're always going to get obstacles, you're always going to have doubters, you're always going to have no's and rejections and doors closed in your face, you're always going to have difficult situations thrown at you. I mean, you know, I can talk for days about the difficulties that I've encountered and still encounter trying to sort of achieve my dream and my vision, but I think you've just got to have a really sort of rock solid will to succeed. You've got to be able, you've got to want to work really, really hard.

It doesn't come easy. It's not about just having a pretty idea of something and then just kind of creating an Instagram page and hoping people come to you. It's really about grit and determination and hard work and a will beyond anything else to just find a way to make this work. And then I think from a business perspective, it's sort of testing its viability before throwing yourself into it completely.

Caroline Kennedy (14:19.144)
Yeah. And for you then, when was the moment when you realised that the business had legs, that it wasn't just a passion, it was powerful.

Rachel (14:31.298)
For me, actually quite quickly, I was quite, I'm not gonna say fortunate, because I don't like the word luck or fortune. I think it's hard work, there's intention behind it. But when I first started within sort of a week or two, I started an Instagram page, I made my logo on Canva, I didn't spend a cent, I was very, very conservative. And to this day, I'm bootstrapped, I've never taken that alone or borrowed any money or taken on any debt. And I'm very proud of that.

But from the very beginning, I sort of started by buying pieces, small pieces, and then reselling them on Instagram. And I could see right away very quickly that my collections were selling out week after week and that people were loving my taste, that really respected individuals in the design community were following me, were messaging me, were asking me to source for their projects. I think I noticed quite quickly that I've got a talent here. And then when the opportunity came to bring in collections and sort of invest in container loads of stock. It was I was only ever spending money that I had made the profit that I had made from selling. I was very conservative from the get go and very much just testing the waters, you know, doing pre-order. I was very conservative.

I was never sort of silly with just throwing money at things. Every single thing that I could do myself, I did myself. I did everything myself. There was nothing that I was outsourcing at that stage at all. I really just learned everything myself and did everything myself. And at that point I was just saying, I've got to earn $1,000 a week. I just want $1,000 a week and that's it.

And that's what I was earning and that's what I was making. And I was just sort of very conservatively building and building and then watching and seeing how the market responded. I mean, within weeks, I sold, I think, chairs in a day, which is, they're like $2,000 chairs and I sold them all in one day. And I could just see that I obviously was bringing in pieces that people wanted. I had an eye for desirable design.

And I definitely had a market in terms of other people weren't doing this. Other people weren't bringing in the same sort of product that I was bringing in. And also the types of clients who were buying from me were really well-respected interior designers. My pieces were going into projects that were being published. Right away, I could see that I had something here. But I never took crazy risks in terms of financially. I really slowly built it up to the point that I was able to make very calculated risks around investment in product and in stock and in manufacturing. And to this day, I'm still, I like to think that I'm more knowledgeable. So I've got more of an idea of what's going to work and what's not going to work, but I'm definitely still not silly in terms of taking huge risks. I'm still quite conservative because I want this business to be sustainable. I've got, I've got wages to pay. I've got salaries. I've got a team. And I, you know, I want this to, I'm building this for the long term.

Caroline Kennedy (17:40.212)
Yeah. And I think what I'm hearing from that is that you were very intentional about the commercial viability and testing that at each stage and life cycle of the business to say, Hey, there is something powerful here and therefore I'll continue to reinvest slowly. and not that I think it's slow by the way, because five years and what you've built is quite remarkable in that time but it's very intentional.

And I think that goes back to that earlier conversation about being conscious and intentional about everything that you do and then analysing it. And not just that it's also about, as you say, learning to do everything. And at the beginning, that can be quite hard in terms of it takes hard work because you're wearing so many different hats. But it's critical too because it's the foundation of the business. And then as you grow and expand, then you know which areas require those outsourcing, I suppose, or support in terms of that growth. it is, and for our listeners, think what Rachel's making some very good about testing market fit as well. And you'll get a sense of it quite early on too, so that when you know that it has momentum, when you kind of get that sense, even if you're building at a sustainable pace.

Rachel (19:14.286)
Yes, exactly. I think that for me, was never a hobby. I started this because I needed an income. And I'm not embarrassed to admit that. wasn't a, it wasn't, I mean, it was a passion project in terms of it comes from the heart, but it definitely needed to be a profitable business in order for me to be able to put my time into this. So that was very much a focus for me.

Caroline Kennedy (19:36.914)
Yeah. And let's go back to that because that's balancing passion and art with commerce. And you do that so well and you stay true to your creative ethos while scaling a business. How do you balance that?

Rachel (20:00.192)
That's a very good question. think that a lot of people, everyone has a passion. Everyone has something that they're very interested in, that they love, that they enjoy doing in their spare time. I think to turn that into a business is the best position you could possibly be in. To do what you love for work and to earn money from doing what you love is the ultimate dream, isn't it? And I think that in order to do that, it does go back to what we were saying before about testing the market, creating a commercially viable plan around your passion. But I think for me, I can see from the get go that the reason that my business is successful is because I have stuck to my guns in terms of holding true to my creative vision and to my taste and to my eye.

I could easily have started importing, you know, off the shelf stock standard furniture and just become another big box furniture retailer. But I knew from the very beginning that if I did that, I will not want to go to work anymore. I will lose my drive and my motivation and my passion and my love for what I do. And I'm just not interested. I'd rather, I'd rather go get a nine to five job than import boring furniture. Like that's just for me really boring.

And so I know that for me to remain creative and for me to love what I'm doing, which really is the goal of all of this is just to enjoy my work and feel that I'm really fulfilling my what I'm here, what I'm placed on this earth to do. I need to stay very true to the brand. And that means both aesthetically and also from a values and philosophy perspective. And I think a big thing for me is people ask, where do you want to be in 10 years? Where do you see the brand growing? And for me, I say, I want to look at every opportunity that comes up and make an assessment of if this is a yes or no for me based on the lens of values and based on the lens of what the goal of the business was from the get go. I'm never going to say yes to an opportunity that means big bucks and means big growth, but takes away the soul and the heart of the business. I think the business is only successful because it has a soul and heart.

And people see that and feel that through all the product that I put out, through all everything that I designed, through the marketing, through the messaging, through every single thing, every touch point, everything that I do, there is a soul and there is a feeling around the brand. And I think as soon as you filter down that feeling for the sake of profit or commercial benefit, the business is on its way out.

So for me, I'm very, very aware of that. And I am conscious every single day of making sure that every decision moving forward maintains that the integrity of what the business set out to do and not losing track and not veering off that path. And that means that the future is open because I don't know where the business is going to go. I'm going to keep growing it. I'm going to keep designing beautiful pieces. And if it stays the size it is now, but it stays true to what it is, then that's fantastic. I'm happy, you know? But I'm definitely only gonna say yes to opportunities for growth. I'm only gonna explore opportunities of growth, which I am exploring. There's lots of things in the pipeline, lots of things happening, but all of those opportunities and all of those movements are in a direction that is in line with where this business, where it was born and what the essence of the business is.

So for me, it's really about that brand pace and making sure that everything, every decision is brand focused and intention focused and soul focused. And that kind of comes down to like who I am and my original kind of dream and vision for the business.

Caroline Kennedy (23:56.02)
Yeah. And while we're still talking, my curiosity starts to think what percentage of opportunities, and I know it will vary. So we'll just do an average, but would you actually turn down because you feel that, you know, there's a pressure with it to dilute your aesthetic. Yeah.

Rachel (24:18.69)
Yeah, I would say every single day, I would say every single day, whether it's big or small, people will ask me to, you know, do a collaboration with them or will ask me to, you know, wear one of their pieces of clothing even. I mean, there's so much that I get asked on a daily basis. I think that people, and I love it, people want to work together and I'm so happy to support and, and you know, I also seek out those sorts of opportunities. So I love that kind of community and people helping each other. But I'm very, very conscious of, even if it's ideas that come from my team or, you know, that I've got to sort of say, I don't think that's in line with who we are.

Every single day, I would say that I'm sort of having to filter everything through that lens of is this true to the brand or is this taking us somewhere that does not feel true anymore? Because I think once you go down the path of not truth, you lose yourself. And once you've lost yourself, your, it's just going to fall to nothing because there's no kind of call. And I think that I've got to sort of stay really true so that I can maintain that integrity of the brand and build it into a respected brand that is known for something. And that's where I, that's what I want to do.

Caroline Kennedy (25:31.668)
Yeah, not known for something other than commercials yet that it's commercially sustainable business.

Rachel (25:37.806)
Yes, exactly. Yes, yes. And that's where the passion and the creativity, it's known for the creativity, it's known for the passion, it's known for the purpose, it's known for the feeling. But the only way that you become known for those things is by making very calculated decisions along the way to ensure that you stay on track.

Caroline Kennedy (25:56.99)
Yeah. And what would you say some of the hardest lessons you've had to learn on this journey?

Rachel (26:06.025)
So many. My goodness, is, I've learned so much about myself and about what I'm capable of and who I am in really difficult times and also in good times. I've learned what happens when you unfortunately trust in the wrong people. I've learned, I'm learning how to be a better leader. And I've learned about what happens when you're not a good leader. I'm not saying I've, you know, not saying badly, I've definitely because this is my first time being a leader since I have definitely made some mistakes. And, and I've learnt from them. And I'm constantly trying to improve and do things better and become better.

And I invest so much time in my own personal development in speaking to people who have done this before, who have, you know, gone down this track before. And really sort of having that real kind of introspection and time alone. I really need that time on my own to sort of really reflect and access what the truth is of a situation. But I think that in managing people in leadership and creating a team, in rushing things and making poor decisions, in making compromises that weren't worth the compromise. There've been a lot of lessons learned. I think that I, it's the biggest learning curve I've ever been on in my life. The last five years, learned a lot.

Caroline Kennedy (27:57.642)
Yeah. And what I love about it is I always say, say you either win or you learn and, it is really critical for that ongoing development to reflect upon the learnings. And sometimes during the experience of the situation, it can feel as if it is, it is a failure, but not necessarily when you reflect upon it. Sometimes you have to go through those situations to actually evolve. And that's part of the process. And I always believe we're a lifelong learner and practitioner, all of us. And therefore, no matter how much you know about a specific topic, whether it be leadership or whether you've managed large businesses, this always that opportunity to grow and develop and to evolve into that next level version. And we're never done. And I think that's the critical element for anyone listening is we're never done. There is no such thing as perfection. There is no such thing as reaching an outcome. And then that's it. There always is that next level learning for anyone. And I wonder if is there a recent decision that you made that scared you, but you knew it was the right one?

Rachel (29:28.928)
Which one should I talk about? I'm scared every day of my decisions, but I'm also, I also just, just power forward. I think around team and staff and growth of the business, I've had to make some hard decisions about team members, letting individuals go. Very, very difficult thing to do, especially as like an empath. It's, it's a hell of a day, you know, in the lead up and then afterwards, just that night, you're not gonna sleep, you know, you're gonna, you know, it's really, really upsetting. But I think having that courage when you know it's the right thing to do, to sort of go through with it, have that difficult conversation.

And then in the post, afterwards just backing yourself. That's really, really difficult because you sort of think, god, did I make the wrong decision? Maybe I could have given them bit more time. Maybe this, maybe that. Poor thing, they're out of a job now. What are they going to do? They've got kids or they've got this or they've got that. It's the worst. It's the worst thing ever to have to let someone go, especially when you really like that person, which is always the case with I mean, for me, it's always been the case is that I really like people that I work with, just not the right fit for the role or for the business or whatever it is. And that's something that even talking about now, I just like my stomach, I feel sick, you know, it's, it's not pleasant, but I feel like I it's, it's something that I need to continue to be able to do is to have the balls to make sure that I have the right bums in the right seats, and that the business is structured.

Organisation is structured right with the right people in the right places. Otherwise I'm just people pleasing. I'm just keeping people happy. I'm just, you know, we're not going to be able to grow without the right skill in the right areas and the right people doing the right jobs. And so it's continuous for me. think that what I lose sleep over more than anything else is people and the team structure and just trying to always think, is this the structure that's going to get us to the next milestone? Is this, you know, what worked for the last five years is very different to what we need in terms of structure to get us to the next five years.

And I'm always sort of thinking, you know, but then you've got beautiful close relationships with your team and it's difficult to have these conversations or to have to say to someone, you know, I'm sorry, we're not going to be able to progress you in the way that you want to progress because you don't have that skillset or you're not there yet, or I see your skills somewhere else. And those are really hard conversations to have.

But I think that having a network of other founders and other professionals who have done this before me is what gives me that strength because it doesn't feel good to do that. It doesn't feel nice. It doesn't feel happy. It feels really, really crap. But having other people around you who are just backing you and saying, you've got to do what's right for the business. You're doing the right thing is that's, think that's how I get that courage to be able to make those difficult calls.

Caroline Kennedy (32:40.946)
Yeah. And I think it's really important to know that sometimes we have to be courageous. we have to be bold when we're assessing what does that next level of structure or team look like for where my business is going and evaluating, do I have the right people on the bus for that journey? And look, you know what I find really interesting at each life cycle stage of a business, individuals can come on the journey and level up with the business, but some find it really challenging to be able to do that. And for them as well, whether it be a skillset or, you know, leveling up their skill, you can give them the opportunity, but that perhaps isn't the journey for them. They're not ready to go on that journey.

And then you have to evaluate, what's the greater good for my business? What does my business need? And they're difficult decisions that founders and leaders have to make. And they're not made easily, but it's also about, I always say, like taking care of the many. Sometimes you have to make hard decisions on the few as well. And it's about seeing that bigger picture. And it doesn't get easier, although at times the first step is always the hardest. The first time you've had to make that call, it still doesn't from a an emotional perspective because you genuinely care about people and that about humanity. It doesn't get easier, but you know, it's the right thing to do and that you step into that with courage. And even for me, I recently had to let go of somebody a couple months ago, actually. and you know, years ago in my corporate career, I had to make people redundant during the GFC and I flew around Australia making those decisions, having those conversations with people one-on-one, but explaining why we needed to do it.

And yet when I did it again recently, it actually felt more emotional because I really liked the individual. so it's different circumstances present differently, but you know, it's the right decision. And interestingly, that individual actually thanked me for making the decision because she knew it was the right thing for her too. And then afterwards, even though I felt a sense of relief, I also did get emotional about it because I had that attachment with her and so it doesn't always have to be a case where you make those decisions and they're not just the right ones for the business. can also be the right ones for the individual in what they need as well because they can be struggling too and we don't necessarily recognise that.

Rachel (35:48.238)
Yeah, no, I think you're right. And that's a good perspective. And I hope that whoever I've had to let go of has recognised that perhaps they're better off elsewhere. But I do think you're right in terms of it does get a little bit easier. And you know what? I've been fired before. I've been made redundant. I've had all of that happen to me. And it hurts. And it's embarrassing. And it's a really horrible place to be. A very dark sort of space. start, you know, reflect on your self-worth and it can take you down a whole ugly rabbit hole of not nice feelings. But I think I am who I am today and have that standard of work and everything that I have today because I've been through those experiences. And so I just, you know, I just that's life, know, that's life. Not every job is perfect for everyone, if that makes sense.

Caroline Kennedy (36:48.81)
And it's also about environment. Some people thrive in entrepreneurial environments, some people don't. And it's about knowing that as well and evaluating that too. Now, as we wrap up, what is the future for your brand and what excites you most about it?

Rachel (37:12.578)
I think what excites me most is the product, the pieces that we're bringing to market. That sort of me and my element is sitting there with a notepad and sketching and drawing and coming up with beautiful ideas and materials and ways to sort of bring beautiful pieces into this world. So for me, it's about really kind of committing to spending a lot more time with my pencil and paper and doing sketching and drawing. And that's kind of where I want to be.

So the future of the brand is definitely more beautiful, beautiful product that brings hopefully a lot of joy to people and to their homes and in turn to themselves. And in terms of growth, I mean, we already are a global brand. We have a large part of our businesses in the US and now growing in the UK as well. And to continue to grow that, I mean, I was just traveling there a few weeks ago. We've got some really big things in the plans there in terms of growing our market there and becoming more accessible in the US. So that's definitely big on the cards. And then even locally, you know, we're looking at some different ways to sort of bring the Rachel Donath experience to the customer. So really kind of creating very experiential events for our customers to sort of see and feel and touch and really immerse themselves in what the brand stands for and the feeling that we talk about all the time in terms of trying to create.

We're doing a beautiful collaboration with a really well-respected iconic brand here in Australia later this year. So there's a lot, a lot, a lot happening. And I think just within the organisation, just looking at sort of always leveling up, how can we do things better? How can we make sure the customer's experience is better? How can we make sure the quality always, it's always about like the quality, the quality, you know, just trying in every single way to just always level up, level up, level up. Like that's my focus is always just, you know, a bit better, a bit better.

And that's always going to be my focus is just trying to just kind of keep moving forward, keep building, but still retaining that soul of the business and the intent and the mission of the business while we grow.

Caroline Kennedy (39:19.55)
Yeah. And one final question, which kind of circles back to what you were just talking about. What are you currently unlearning or rethinking in your business right now?

Rachel (39:34.094)
Oh, a lot of things. I am trying to unlearn traditional ways of working. So we've sort of, I've been tossing up for a long time about do we, know, do we do an office? Do we do remote? Do we do hybrid? Do I hire talent wherever they are in the world and work together remotely? Or do I need everyone in Melbourne in one place working together?

And that's something that I have to challenge myself on because there are some people that I really wanna work with who I'm sort of speaking to and, but they're not in Melbourne. And I need to sort of think, that gonna work or is that not gonna work? Do we need to be physically together or do we not? I know for myself, I love working on my own. I love being in my own space and I work really well on my own. I find people, like when there's a lot of people around me, I just kind of get very distracted and often my creativity because I'm quite an introverted person, would you believe? And I really recharge on my own and I'm most creative on my own.

And so I produce much better work when I'm on my own. So it's about sort of thinking, am I creating a workplace that is for others or is it for me? And if it's for others, is that the right thing to do? Because others is a whole lot of people and everyone's different. So I haven't figured out yet what to do, but I'm just kind of trying to work out, can I do things differently? Can I do experiential pieces differently for the customer? Can I sort of break the mold and do things my own way, not necessarily follow how others are doing it, but really kind of create my own way of doing things. And that sort of really feels exciting to me. I like the idea of being able to sort of do things in a new way, but I'm just gonna figure out what that way is and then go for it.

Caroline Kennedy (41:18.932)
Yeah. And I think the critical element here is that you're always questioning the status quo for anyone listening and thinking about what, what do we do now? What do we need? What does that look like? What are the varied options? and then investigating or really analysing those options to, make an informed decision. Now that decision might need to change in years time or five years time, whatever it may be, but you're always reflecting upon where are we now, where are we going and what do we need to do differently? A to stand out, but also perhaps we even be more efficient or to get more creativity as a team or to get more collaboration as a team, whatever it may be, but you're always analysing.

And I think that's the point of difference because it is that consciousness always consciously evaluating what's next, what does that look like? And whilst in the short term that can create more confusion, it also gives you more certainty when you take that step to move forward as well. And knowing that, well, it might evolve, it might transform, we might do things differently in the future, but for right now, this is the right decision for where we're at.

Rachel (42:45.142)
Yeah, exactly. I think it's very much about that flexibility, being able to pivot. I'm very, you know, like constantly pivoting. I think I pivot all the time. And, you know, I think that's part of the creative problem solving. And what I enjoy so much about running a business is that sort of constant challenging of ideas of the way things are, or the way things have been, or the way things are supposed to be in inverted commas.

And if it's not working, pivot, you know, like really kind of being quite decisive and quick in terms of realising this is not working and then making a decision to try something different. So, but I kind of really enjoyed that part of it is challenging things and try not to be afraid to do things in a way that instinctually feels right, even though it has never been done before, or even though it's out of the box or it's not commonplace. And I think that's, yeah, that's fun for me is to be able to sort of think of new ways of doing things.

Caroline Kennedy (43:44.552)
Yeah. And I think that drive to be unique is what is your point of difference, not just within the business, but how you operate and how you see the world. And for me, I think that's really important, particularly around that relevance piece for how what's the journey of the business for the future and what that looks like. And not accepting the status quo to which is really important.

So Rachel's journey is a reminder that success isn't always linear and beauty isn't always safe too. It's about owning your instincts, looking back at what makes you different and being unapologetically original. Thank you Rachel for joining us today and sharing your insights generously. I really appreciate it.

Rachel (44:37.902)
Thank you so much for having me. Love chatting with you.