Ep. 39 Steve Pastor, CEO of Kings of Neon– The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 39: Steve Pastor, CEO of Kings of Neon

Caroline Kennedy (00:00.94)
Welcome to the Honest CEO Show. I'm your host Caroline Kennedy. And today I'm really excited to be joined by Steve Pastor, who's the founder and CEO of Kings of Neon. And we were just talking about before that I said, I need one of those signs behind me. So you'll have to watch this space for next time. Now it's a brand that's transforming the neon sign industry with bold, creative, cutting edge technology and global reach. So Steve's entrepreneurial journey is nothing short of what I call inspiring. And from the early days, he was a DJ and then he went into launch Kings of Neon in 2019, if I have my facts correct. And he built it to a multi-million dollar, business, which is recognised globally as well. And they've got clients like Janet Jackson, McDonald's, NFL, so some big players in this space. And his rapid growth also earned him a ranking in the smart company smart 50 awards as well. And in October 24, Steve made headlines when he was on the Shark Tank Australia, pitching his business, which is now a $10 million business. And interestingly, he walked away from a deal with Nick Bell and I want to deep dive into that. But for me, what that really kind of defined was the confidence that you have in your ability to be able to grow and control and the vision that you have for your business. So I'm really excited to deep dive into your journey today, Steve. And thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

Steve (01:52.215)
Thank you so much for having me. So yeah, thank you, Caroline. Appreciate it.

Caroline Kennedy (01:55.49)
Great. Now before, as I said earlier, Kings of Neon, you were a DJ and you're in that scene. How did that background influence your approach to business?

Steve (02:07.989)
Yeah, so I guess to come back just one step is I have forever been a retail guy. So I worked for Michael Hill Jewelers and I was climbing the ranks, so to speak, cutting across the country and different countries as well with Michael Hill. But forever I had a dream to have something of my own. I think, you deep down, I wanted to, I always knew or I always had a feeling that I could pursue something of my own. So I left Michael Hill without a vision or an understanding.

And my friend at the time, he was coming back from the States and we said, well, we used to DJ when we were 18. Do you want to start DJing together and see if we could do something? I was like, look, you know what, I'm off for a bit of fun and see how it builds out, Lo and behold, you know, been a father of two kids and multiple mortgages and DJing is probably not the easiest business to get into at the time, but it was probably a really great intro into business, being my first business that I've ever got into. Gave me a good sense of work ethic, especially, you know, working sometimes 12, 14 hours a day, right into, you know, 2 a.m. in the morning.

And the pivotal moment for us was we were trying to increase our average sale so we could go out less and earn more money from going out. So we were looking at different ways to increase our average sale, whether it be hire items or photo booths and all those sort of things that go along with the DJ. And there was a lady at the time that was selling these Neons and hiring these Neon signs out. And she said some not so nice words about us to one of our favorite vendors. And that was the launch of Kings of Neon.

It's a full-blown spite business. I essentially said, well, fuck that lady. I'm to go do what she does better than her. So that was the launch of Kings of Neon. Essentially got a whole heap of higher neon signs for our wedding guests, mainly. And we started leasing these out through the DJ business. And then it wasn't until the following winter, actually where I started to build out a Shopify store, just when I was a little bit bored between gigs. And then it was always just something on the side, something that we were kind of curious in. And then COVID 2020 was really the launch and I had nothing else to do because DJ events were canceled. And then I had six months to run away just to go and give it a shot essentially. yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (04:54.748)
Yeah, you know I love about that is that it was a spite. So you know, the the passion that is associated with that, like I'm going to show you what's possible and clearly you have what do you think where, because launching it at uncertain times too would have been quite challenging. And what do you think were the biggest obstacle you faced at the beginning and then in scaling the business?

Steve (05:22.272)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, initially it's just personal fear. I guess not having a business like this. didn't know e-commerce. I didn't know anything about the game. I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just willing to sort of go in head first. So there's a lot of like personal fear. I, know, it sounds a bit cliche, but am I good enough to do this and go through that next step? And then flowing on by not knowing the industry.

There was a lot of ignorance tax. So what I call ignorance tax anyway, where you might hire a particular person or not hire a particular person, not understand an industry. So I kind of, I'm a bit of a deep end kind of guy. I'm happy to fail. I'm happy to sort of go through those ebbs and flows and spend a little bit of money to fail. but that also comes with, you know, slowing of growth and making some pretty big monumental fails too. But it all sort of is part of story that got us here.

Caroline Kennedy (06:28.55)
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things you do have to fail people don't appreciate that because you've got to try things and not everything's going to work It's failing fast and adapting when you know that it's not working as the critical element and I wonder for you What would you say were the probably the biggest mistakes that you've kind of made? And what were the critical learnings from them?

Steve (06:58.049)
Yeah, with the thought process of hindsight, for me, it would have been a lot easier if I hired someone with knowledge in the industry to begin with. I went with who I knew and who would just come along on the journey with me at the time. So we're very much an unconventional e-commerce business to start off with. But to sort of put a particular story on it, one of the biggest kind of monumental failures

is I early days, pre $1 million revenue, I signed up to a marketing agency, not knowing that marketing agencies are, you they can have their own little quirks, so to speak. And this was one of the largest marketing agencies in Australia. being, you know, I was very convinced by them that the larger the agency, the better the results and unfortunately at the time I actually signed up to a $22,000 a month plan within the SEO and Facebook marketing which I didn't know any better but I thought they'd do something great with it. It was a minimum three months contract. I was able to get out of it after two, but it was quite a big fleece and a big hit to the revenue and bank balance at the time for sure.

Caroline Kennedy (08:24.015)
Yeah, that is a learning that many, businesses, not just the Ecom go through. And it's really interesting because I always think about whether that industry is ripe for disruption in terms of if we don't get you results, then you don't pay. Right. And so really backing themselves to and anytime I've entered into agreements with any digital marketing agencies, always based on outcomes and results and they don't like it, but I'm quite forceful with it. And that's okay because you've got to see a return on investment. And but it's not a conversation for today, but it definitely there's, it is right for disruption. And it doesn't matter what organisation they are either too. They tell a great sales story, the majority of them, and they really, they build your hope up and you really think this is it. This is, I'm going to see some value here. I'm going to get a return on my investment and then it just falls flat anyway. But it is a good learning and a good learning for our listeners too, if you are ever going to engage.

Results are the outcome that you're looking for and then how do you look to build that into any agreement that you're looking for with organisations that are going to support you too.

Steve (09:49.767)
Yeah, yeah, I think that the biggest learning out of that and not something that I went through until probably years later was actually learning the craft. So understanding the craft. So then I can make a decision if I know that they are the best person for my business, let alone, you know, if they're actually going to get the results, you know, are they just telling me a great story, like you said, so.

Caroline Kennedy (10:14.838)
Yeah, yeah. And knowledge is power, right? And we don't need to know everything, but if you know the basics and you understand the fundamentals, particularly around Ecom, marketing, et cetera, that helps, right? And I'm sure that you now know more than the fundamentals because you've had no choice through that experience as well. And through a desire to learn, because I can just even chatting to you, can see that you're one of those individuals who loves to learn; that lifetime learner...

Now you built an international presence as well with customers in Australia, in the US and beyond. What do you think the biggest hurdles were in expanding globally?

Steve (10:59.591)
Yeah, again, think, interestingly enough, when I speak to lot of other founders, especially ecom founders, I mean, Shopify has made things a lot easier than even when I initially went into the US. But there's a lot of fear around the difference, especially taxing in the US, things like that. And just how it gets done, you know, how business gets done, whether it's through not knowing how an item is tracked, who's shipping. We've got all these last mile players that take over the Australian market. And then depending on where that's located, the customer can have an amazing experience or a really terrible experience.

I think initially it's fear. The secondary to that is a version of remote work along with time differences. So the biggest thing that I'm challenged with daily is the timing challenges. And especially starting out, you just have to embrace it. And it just means that you're working, if you're in the US, you're working from 3, 4 a.m. And if you're in the UK, you're not sleeping.

And that's just something that you have to of balance up with and understand that there's a period of time until you get things ticking over and you've got someone in that market that can sort of run it for you. That's just the nature of the beast.

Caroline Kennedy (12:28.093)
Yeah and what would you say your strongest markets are currently?

Steve (12:33.048)
So from a revenue perspective, it goes the US, AU, then the UK for us. Yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (12:39.028)
Okay yeah and which of them was the hardest to break into and why?

Steve (12:46.206)
Yeah, interestingly. UK, to be honest, is still relatively new. But in saying that, we probably had an easier sort of run into it than we did than the US. The US is a bit of an interesting beast. I think there is a degree where it's an open ocean. You know, there is so much opportunity. So once you get an understanding of who your customer is and if you can find them, it could be amazing.

But it was really hard for us to find profitability. So we ran in the red for a considerable amount of time whilst building that out. And we also went out of the market for a little bit until we found the right person again. So definitely the US was the most difficult.

Caroline Kennedy (13:32.194)
Yeah. And how did you break into it then? When you said finding a target marker, which is the critical part, like how did you then break, sort of crack that nut?

Steve (13:47.771)
Yeah, so I think there's an element of maturity in business where we started to understand who we actually were. And it's really interesting the LED neon market because a lot of players got into it when it was just bursting, which was like probably 2019, 2020, and saw a lot of success on the back end of that. However, a lot of those companies have fallen off now and they don't even exist. Whereas we always had this sort of B2B element to our business and the customer service and we really strive when we get to work with larger businesses as well. And it suddenly just started to shift and we were trying to go into the US market as more of a DTC e-commerce play and we weren't getting that profitability. And where we saw the shift is when we shifted our focus in essence. So we went, you know what, let's not try and find profitability from the DTC side of the business and let's go in with our B2B offering where we're starting to see some wins in Australia and focus on the people. I spent some time in the US with our staff and understanding the market a little bit more and then we just started to see a nice little uptick.

Caroline Kennedy (15:03.235)
Yeah, great. And you were talking about like working with organisations of B2B and like the NFL and I mentioned McDonald's earlier and Janet Jackson. How did those opportunities come about? And what challenges did they present as well?

Steve (15:23.996)
Yeah, definitely. The NFL is the best story. So this is the quintessential hustle story. I like to call it so I saw a bit of a life hack because we've got products where people feel a localisation element. So signage is very localised. They want to be able to go down the road and touch and feel a lot of the times. So and they won't call someone if they're out of area. So we thought, well, you know what, where's the best place to launch in America? Like, City of Lights, let's go to Las Vegas. So I started a remote office in Las Vegas. So I went on, got a remote office and we obviously weren't physically there. And lo and behold, two weeks later, I got a call from the organiser for the NFL draft. So I was very upfront and honest with him and advised him that a majority of the operations were in Australia.

And the thing and how we typically won the business early days is we just went well over and beyond what anyone else was willing to do. So we built out like a literally a 30 page pitch deck for NFL draft and preemptive designs and what would that would mean for the customer, what that would mean for the organiser, and just went above and beyond to the point where I actually went over with some of the team and installed them for them and that's where we want all those events. The tricky part with working with larger corporates is the expectation. Especially in events, there's a very high expectation around delivery and what delivery looks like and if it doesn't fit in exactly to what they expect or level of expectations or you don't communicate as well as possible, you can just lose the customer straight away.

So we've had little experiences like that, but funnily enough, typically they end up coming back because it's still better than the rest of the industry. So yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (17:25.646)
Yeah, you see a set the standard high but even what I think about that story is you were transparent at the beginning. So you said this is where our operation is the logistically, you know, we're going to service into America, it's all in Australia that perhaps in itself could have been a deterrent to a big corporate organisation. Yet, they must have appreciated the transparency or they appreciated the extra effort that you would go to to prove that you could deliver as well.

Steve (18:06.539)
Yeah. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but how excited do you get when someone gives you effort without asking?

Caroline Kennedy (18:17.67)
Amazing yes I look for it day in day out believe me and it's very hard to come by. Yep.

Steve (18:19.318)
Right? Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, like I'm literally, it's probably really like cemented from my early days in Michael Hill. And they had a really great culture around making the customer come first because it's like such a high value price. Purchase a lot of emotion that goes along with it. So it was, was almost eight years ingrained into me that whatever the customer said, they were right.

And to bring that into a market where a lot of my competitors, they don't care about customer service. They'll offshore it. They won't even know who's running their customer service. They'll try and find the cheapest product and then send it on the cheapest airplane to get there in the most inefficient way, just so they make the most revenue off each deal. I just like, I don't know, I'm just ingrained and obviously being in the events industry for a couple of years. Also, I was like, what's the easiest and best way, the best experience for the customer to sort of go through that journey? And I think for Jason, which was the contact for the NFL, I think he saw that. just like, because it's just rare. It's just super rare for people to go over and above.

Caroline Kennedy (19:42.806)
Yeah. And I also think it's perhaps a sense of responsibility too. Like I get a sense of that when I'm talking to you and I know from experience that that sense of responsibility, I'm making a commitment and these individuals are relying on me and therefore I've got to deliver and I'm committed to delivering because it's also to about your brand and your personal brand as well as your actual organisational brand. But if you're committed to delivering, it's not many people just go that extra mile. And it's such a shame today, but it is absolutely a point of difference, even though it shouldn't be necessarily. Yeah, but that's and I think people probably get a sense of that from you. I know I certainly do. And you probably I don't know whether you recognise that or not, but yeah.

Steve (20:39.352)
Yeah, it probably comes down to one of my core kind of morals within me where I look for trust in others. So that's probably my highest value points. And especially when we're hiring, I look for that trusting element over and above a skill set. So exactly what you said just then is like, if I can't deliver on what I say, or even what my team is saying, then that's not a transaction. That's not a positive transaction. That's a negative transaction. And someone needs to be responsible or accountable for that transaction. And 99 times out of a hundred, lands with the business. Unless you've communicated it. And even if you have communicated, there's still an opportunity to communicate, over communicate it. And I think just having that as a core, like fundamental of the business and then revolving through, you know, the team there is an expectation that it's not just sell a sign and then hang up the phone. It's like, what's the best possible outcome for the customer.

Caroline Kennedy (21:44.032)
Yeah, yeah I really do love that. Now let's talk about Shark Tank Australia. What was pitching to the sharks like?

Steve (21:53.113)
Fucking petrifying. Yeah, like super interesting experience. mean, I did do some small TV gigs when I was younger, but I've never been on TV or anything like that. And then you're obviously there to talk about yourself, is scary. I don't mind talking about the business because the business is, you know, it's numbers and you know what I'm passionate about but when you talk about yourself it's a little bit harder. But yeah the process in itself it's long in the ways of by the time you get in front of the sharks you've already been there for two and a half hours gone through a lot of filming process they you know commend you if you look nervous you know they ask you to look nervous before you go in so it's kind of subconsciously building out this nervous energy. And then obviously four, very, or five very successful individuals in front of you. But once I kind of got past that element and I did my initial pitch, I just felt really fun. You know, it's just like-minded people having a chat about my business and I get to sort of sell it, you know, on national TV. How good? How good? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Caroline Kennedy (23:08.91)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the exposure of it, right, too. Yeah, yeah. One of my one of the individuals I work with Rachel Ferguson, she went on years ago for sinks body and she actually got Andrew Banks as an investor and he is still an investor in her business today and they work so well together. So it actually has positive outcomes, right? Now you walked away from a deal with Nick Bell. What was your thought process turning that down?

Steve (23:44.31)
Yeah, I mean, so when I went, which you mentioned in the beginning, when I applied for Shark Tank, we applied with a set revenue. So our revenue at the time was 6.7 or 6.5, I think, from the previous year. And we were already on track to do eight in a bit. And then, you know, with everything that we've got going on in the background, we're building out, I was like, look, you know, by time everything gets done, we might be doing almost double this. So from that point of view, that was first and foremost. Secondary, Nick was the only one that conceptualised the business, but didn't really take into account, in my opinion, probably me. He looked at the business in itself, it's pretty hard to know someone in 45 minutes, but I will never fucking lose. I'm not gonna lose, I'm gonna win, I'm win at all costs. I think if, sure, like from the business perspective, investing in the business, there's an argument of irrelevant that was fair. But when you look at everything in the backgrounds and what we're building out, was very unfair in the ways of that valuation and what was pushed out. I was willing to do a deal, but it wasn't gonna be fair, anything less than I was there for, yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (25:10.567)
Yeah. Yeah. And I also think backing yourself is really important. And you're right. When I watched the clip of it, I could get a sense that he was discounting your drive and your ambition. And it was interesting to watch too, because he wasn't happy that you declined him. He can see it in his face. So I read body language and I could just tell he was disappointed, which is fair enough. but you know, but then he could have easily counter offered as well too, but good on you for going in there, giving it a go and, and backing yourself and knowing your worth to, and knowing what you're capable of as opposed to just thinking I need this and you didn't need it clearly you got that far without it and I've no doubt you'll get a lot further without it too. Do you have any regrets when you think about Shark Tank?

Steve (26:14.076)
No, not at all. I know that might sound come across really arrogant, but not at all. Like to be completely transparent, we got asked to come on the show. So I've always been a long term fan of Shark Tank, I love Shark Tank. Like it's a definitely a show that I watch. But I was definitely weighing up the pros and cons of going on. And a lot of the pros was exposure. So I knew going in there, I was happy to take a deal. But you know, it wasn't going to be expensive, anything more than what we were willing to give away. I would have liked to do a deal with one of the sharks because I think that experience would be massive and that's what I was trying to get across while I was there. However, probably the best experience that I can probably lend for early stage businesses or starters is there's been periods through the business growth where I've been willing to give quite a large portion away to relieve my fear or relieve stress. And if you can push through that fear and push through that stress, you realise that like no amount of money is actually worth any percentage of your business if you can go through it. And the freedom that that gives you as you start to grow your business is like it's so uplifting and it's and it's got enormous potential and you can create and mold your culture in your own particular way and I think the benefits far outweigh a pocket of money unless it's life-changing, you I think. You've got to weigh those things up.

Caroline Kennedy (27:57.354)
Yeah and I also think it comes down to the individual as well right yeah and what they're seeking and and you're right about the fear because in business there's constant fear constant anxiety particularly for those individuals that are future-based and they keep tying to the future and there is a lot of anxiety that comes with that because of the uncertainty and I think if you can hang in there and remember that you've already come this far or you've pushed through fear before then you use it as fuel to get you where you need to go I think too and yeah and what you've just described is is a fantastic advice for any business owner because it is so true. And I loved how you also said, I would have paid lots of kind of money to relieve that fear, but there is nothing that will relieve that fear other than pushing through it. Yeah.

Steve (28:58.365)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll still stay there even if you take some money. It's you know, if anything it may even prolong it. yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (29:03.554)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Now many business owners are really challenged with branding and differentiation, but I think you guys have done this so well. So tell us how did you stand out in a crowded market, which is very difficult to do.

Steve (29:26.805)
I'll be honest again someone coming not from branding or e-commerce or anything like that it was. We probably got lucky on the name to be honest it very much carried us through the earlier years And I lent on it like nothing else but then we've during The whole journey were probably more creative-based and sales based than we were anything else.

And with that creativity, we were always throwing around how we connected with our customers and who they were and what they were doing. So we were always kind of molding and changing that messaging to really land with our customers. But then I think it's also coupled with the fact that you just got to keep throwing out top of funnel marketing so that everyone knows about you. And then you've got to connect with people that align to your brands, a couple of really great collaborations, obviously the starting of the NFL season now, is we worked with Brian Toto and Jerome Luwai from the Panthers and Luttrell from Souths. We did a lot with MMA guys and we had Delta Gudrum and whichever else. So we always tried to align ourselves with larger named individuals and also brands. Finally enough, it just came through good customer service. So 95 % of our collaborations, they reached out to us. We didn't reach out to them? Yeah, so we've virtually never paid for any collaboration outside of giving a sign for free on the odd occasion. So pretty much every single brand or big name has either paid for it or asked if they could do some sort of a collaboration.

Caroline Kennedy (31:19.438)
Some sort of collaboration. That's impressive. That is extremely impressive. And you might underestimate that, I think. I've worked with a lot of businesses. That is extremely impressive. And even Shark Tank coming to you as well. Yeah, that is extremely impressive. should, and I know you are very proud of that achievement. just it goes, it's a testament to the work that you've done. Yeah.

Steve (31:49.755)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. think it's I'm a bit of a believer in, you know, universal stuff and, you know, things coming back to you. And I think it just comes down to compounding interest, as I call it, you know, compounding results, compounding happiness, compounding all sorts of things. And I just think by doing a lot of good work for the initial, you know, one of our first clients was Twitter, for instance, you know, and if you do good work. Two, three people are gonna say, kings of neon, and then another two, three people are gonna say, kings of neon, and another two, three people are gonna say, kings of neon, and then you just become the obvious choice, or the only choice. if you're in a saturated market where other people aren't doing that, or not as well, you just gotta be better than the next best. So it's just a matter of that compounding interest, as I call it, and I think that's where we've slowly built out our brand and our reputation as well.

Caroline Kennedy (32:50.93)
Yeah, and better than the next best is a question that I think anyone listening to this today, think about that. What does that look like for your business? Because we can get caught up in the BAU, business as usual, day to day operations. But if we're continually thinking, how do we become the best of the best? How do we level up? What does that next level up look like? How do we be the leader in our industry? And you ask those questions and you solve those problems continual, you'll find that that compounding interest that you're talking about, it comes back. But I also want to recognise that I also think your authenticity and I know that's a word that gets thrown around, but you're just honest and you say it like it is. And I think that in itself, people value and they're drawn to as well because they know where they stand and there's trust in that too. And I'm sure that that in itself is why organisations keep coming back to you and why they talk about you to other people too. So there's a lesson in that for our listeners too about just being honest, being yourself and thinking about what that looks like for their businesses and for them as a brand.

Steve (34:04.156)
Mm. For sure. Yeah, yeah, I agree and not to get too kind of down the personal self of it but if you're authentic to yourself then it's gonna just come across a lot better to your customers. I've been one to you know overthink what does this individual want from me in this moment in this time and I think deep down we just you know ultimately want to be ourselves and for ourselves we feel most comfortable which gets the best results.

Caroline Kennedy (34:46.496)
Yep. Yep. What's the biggest leadership lesson you've learned through this journey? Big question, I know.

Steve (34:54.692)
It changes every day. This is one that I was just talking about this morning. When you get to a moment, or even if before you get to a moment, I think the biggest part of growth, especially where we're at right now and growing out the business is hiring. And I've never really, well, I have, but my conceptualisation around hiring changes all the time. But where we're at right now, we have a brand, we have fans of the brands, so it's known. And you can really underestimate the power of changing an industry or innovation or people just wanting to be part of something where it can almost scare you from going after those amazing people. And for us internally now, there's been a bit of a conversation where I talk to my leaders within the business, the ones that are hiring staff for their teams, and I go, who's your dream hire? Who is your dream hire? And put a name to it, have you worked with them before? Do you wanna work with them? What's it gonna do for your life? How can you imagine how it's gonna move the business? And then you start to think and you go, okay, to use a, you know, say for instance, I'm looking for a marketing individual and I'm looking for Davey or something, you know, from Audi. You know, I was like, what would he do for the business if you had him here sitting next to you today? And then you start to reverse engineer and work out how to get that person and then pick up the phone, have a conversation. And a lot of the time we already know these people, they're in our lives and possibly they've already been thinking about maybe one day I wouldn't mind working with Kings of Neon or whatever business it may be. And if you get to have that conversation, which I've had two in the last week, and both individuals have said, yes, we'd love to be part of the organisation. So you just never know. You never know. But hiring is like the key to a larger business. And just hiring people smarter than you and not being scared of it and wanting the challenge.

Caroline Kennedy (37:09.358)
I love that. And go after what you want, right? Go and get it. I think that's the critical thing. And there's so many people hold back. What have you got to lose? A no? Well, are you any better off? No, but say if they say yes. And getting the right people on the bus, I think, too. And A players who are going to elevate everybody's thinking and then thinking about what's my next level team look like for where we want to go and how do we get those individuals to take us there. I love that and that's clearly why you guys are so successful because you just make it happen.

Steve (37:51.695)
Yeah, we make it happen. And then it's just knowing your, you know, I'm really terrible at backend systems, possibly the worst. literally zone out when, whenever you want to talk about anything in detail, I pretty much zone out. So it was like really imperative for me for the next level of growth, you know, to get someone that just loved systems, dreams about it at night and now we've got that guy and it's like the amount of weight off my shoulders is incredible. Absolutely incredible. And it's kind of like that, it's like a little bit of like what's the biggest weight on my shoulders? What would be my dream outcome if someone could take that off me right now? And do I know that person or do I know that aversion of that person where they could sort of fix that up? Because I just think we try and I'm guilty of it, we try and make people into what we want versus just finding people that are naturally interested in it. Especially in small business, you you'll see it, you know, one individual juggling seven or eight versions, you know, they'll be doing social media and they're doing sales and they're packing all the boxes and, you know, and then, you know, you're expecting them to get you lunch and then they've got to be a nice person to you too. And it's like, it's just like, that's not realistic.

Caroline Kennedy (39:18.162)
No, it's way too diluted. How can that person even focus on delivering? What are they delivering a lot? Particularly the coffee that's really going to shift the needle. All right. What's the future look like for Kings of Neon?

Steve (39:38.648)
Yeah, so we're gonna be the largest signage company in the world. I know that may sound like very ambitious sort of standpoint, but when I sort of start to think about it and I break it down, I don't get too scared by it. I get sort of excited by it. And then just what that means for our team as well. for us, it's obviously dominating LED neon and illuminated signage to start off with. But then, we just want to of dominate the industry. So we're going to look at all elements of the pipeline, whether it be from technologies, because we've got a technology arm to the business, which we'll be launching soon. And then we'll look at manufacturing as well and just go with the same model in the sense of provide a better product, provide a better service than what our customers currently get. And then by offering those sort of elements, it releases capital and allows us to do more and more and more.

I see the signage industry as a bit of a broken industry, very much dominated by smaller individuals or franchises. And so you're not getting that level of innovation and I'm super passionate to bring that level of innovation and customer service to the market.

Caroline Kennedy (40:45.575)
Yep. Yep. What I want to go back to for the listeners is you said it might seem like a big vision. That's when you know that's the right vision. I say this all the time to individuals I work with because they play small and I'm like, no, it has to be what I call an OMG outrageous, massive goal. actually feels like it's not possible. And then breaking it down into bite-sized pieces makes it possible and then you're just working towards it. And I have no doubt that you will achieve that. And it's exciting. And I can just sense the belief. And you don't always have to believe either. That's the other thing I would say to anyone listening. You don't have to believe it's possible, but aim for it and then build it. And then you can see just how possible it is. It should scare you, right? Yeah.

Steve (41:53.485)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. You know, even I was talking about singular focus just earlier in the sense of, you know, I've got a triathlon coming up and it's in two weeks and I haven't trained as much as possible. I'm confident that I'll get through it. However, like it's really interesting when you think of business and I think we're very obsessed at the moment with having a balance in every single aspect of our life. But if we have singular focus and use the triathlon as an example, I'd be pretty good at triathlon if that was my singular focus. And I think sometimes why we get scared, why at least I get scared, is I try and formulate how to be the best at everything. The best dad, the best husband, the best business owner, the best leader, the best whatever it may be. And it's just like, when you're thinking about things, just have singular focus on whatever it is and move in and out of those focuses. Don't think that you have to go and take everything on at once and then just peel off a certain side when it is really important. And especially if you're in a growth phase, I think it's really important to have singular focus. And then if you can't have it, other people in the industry, you've got to have it too, or in your team to have that singular focus to continually drive that vision as well.

Caroline Kennedy (43:01.942)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. And I love the way you've told it in a story about the triathlon. And there is no such thing as worth like balance. And I think anybody trying to achieve it, I mean, good luck to you. Let me know if you do. But I think when you love what you do, you don't try and find balance, you just be in the moment for whatever is required in that moment and be the best version of you, whatever that may be. And it won't be perfect, right?

Steve (43:47.062)
Yeah, I find when I'm running faster, harder, stronger, more things are going on, whether it's just my brain, but everything kind of like gets easier. You know, cause I like, I'm excited, I'm driven, I'm a bit addicted to the endorphins of it. And it's like, yeah, let's go, let's go, let's go. What else can I do? So I was just like, I like to keep a busy mind in that sense. And I agree. I actually find the harder, the more intense that I work, the better the dad I am. You know, cause I'm fulfilled in my work, so then I've come home fulfilled. Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (44:17.506)
Yeah. Yeah. Build. Yeah. Yeah. Now my last question to you is, when you think about legacy, whether that be your personal legacy or the businesses legacy in the industry, what kind of legacy do you want to have in your industry and for future entrepreneurs?

Steve (44:42.515)
Hmm. I think it's hard to have an ending on anything, if I'm being honest. I like different parts of the journey would answer that question differently. In the sense of day-to-day legacy, I just want to be true to myself and I want to feel that passion within the team and within myself to keep continually growing and innovating in the space. In the sense of like possibly in the years and years to come, I think, you know, best to serve the person who I once was, which was the 28 year old guy that was trying to climb the ladder that thought by staying in one industry and one location, that was the be all end all and I was gunning for the extra 6 % pay rise and that was gonna change my life and I looked up to these individuals as gods and it's just so wrong. It's like so wrong and I get really scared by larger businesses that put really scared by the large businesses that put amazing people in boxes. And I think for me, I just want to continue to grow this business and allow the individuals in China to amazing people in boxes. And I think for me, I just want to continually grow this business and allow the individuals inside it to grow. And if that means they stay in the business, amazing. That means if they go out and do other things and some incredible things, amazing. It's just like having that foster of entrepreneurship and growth and continual improvement. And then so everyone comes to work with a big smile on their face and feels like they're accomplishing something. I know it was bit fluffy and probably not a definitive answer, but just a continual pursuit.

Caroline Kennedy (46:27.872)
No, and I think also what I heard from you, which is the authentic element is I just want to be me. But actually what you did say was I want to be an innovator. I want to make a difference. Right. And I think you're already doing that even from the moment that you know, had that lady at the beginning with the, I, I'm going to do these signs better than you, know, that, that, that is, I'm going to do it better. I'm going to innovate. I'm going to think how we can do this differently, but with the customer at the heart of everything that you do. And I think that that will be, reckon your legacy is being authentic, being you plus challenging the status quo and innovating in an industry that is pretty static.

Steve (47:15.958)
Yeah, I'm wildly competitive too, I don't necessarily conceptualise why one business is larger than mine. So I can't be like, how can I win? How can I win? So I'm always sort of driven to obviously get to the next level, so to speak.

Caroline Kennedy (47:18.614)
Yeah, I could tell.

Caroline Kennedy (47:34.027)
Yeah, good. Well, thank you so much for joining us and Steve's story is a testament to the power of bold branding, strategic growth, competitiveness as well, and knowing when to bet on yourself. So thank you so much, Steve, for sharing your story today with us. I truly appreciate it.

Steve (47:52.533)
Thank you so much for having me, appreciate it.