Ep. 34 Teri Hobbs, COO of Bilue – The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 34: Teri Hobbs, COO of Bilue

Caroline Kennedy (00:06.607)
Welcome to the Honest CEO Show where we explore the authentic journey of remarkable business leaders. I'm your host Caroline Kennedy and today I'm honored to be joined by Terry Hobbs, the Chief Operating Officer at Bilue. Terry has been a pivotal figure in the media and technology sectors, previously steering Deluxe's operations across Asia Pacific region, her leadership was instrumental in launching GoFlex APAC, Enhancing Digital Cinema Distribution in Australia and New Zealand. In her current role at Bilue, a leading mobile and emerging technology company based in Sydney and Melbourne, Teri brings her vast operational leadership experience to drive efficiency and foster innovation, ensuring the company's operations are streamlined and they're focused on growth. Welcome to the show, Teri.

Teri (01:09.132)
Thank you, Caroline. It's very nice to be here and I wanted to be here as well.

Caroline Kennedy (01:12.889)
Yeah, thanks. So can you share with us your early experiences or the influences that led you to pursue a career in media and technology?

Teri (01:28.642)
I think right from the beginning, I was very interested in businesses and how they worked and people. The technology piece was right at the time when I was starting out where that was the bubble of 2000 and that was sort of naturally where I landed and it's grown since there. I'm not technical. I'm happy to solve technical problems, but I like to work with technical people and be the person that can translate that into how it impacts the business or the customers. And I think the benefits that we get as a society and as people and growth, what we can get out of that is really quite what is motivating and drives you forward to understand more. But I'm not the type of person that likes to get into the technical side of it. I just like the outcomes that we get from it.

Caroline Kennedy (02:20.091)
I'm sure though that you are understating your knowledge in regards to technology because I know like even with my experience when I was a CEO, we had to use technology and I knew the fundamentals of it, right? But I wasn't the doer of the technology, God forbid that that would happen. That's probably what you're describing, right?

Teri (02:45.902)
Yes, I would totally agree with you there. I understand how it works and how it hangs together and what we can get from it, I guess. But I don't like to get into the ins and outs of it in the detail.

Caroline Kennedy (02:57.817)
Yeah, yeah. And what motivated you to join Deluxe? And how did your initial roles prepare you for the leadership position you eventually assumed?

Teri (03:10.542)
So when I went from the position I held at Upstream into Deluxe, I had strong customer background and strong customer experience and contract management, understanding how our businesses that I've worked in from different industries influenced the customers and how to manage those relationships. I really wanted to manage more people and a bigger team because I loved watching people grow and develop.

I knew at that point in time that I had a gap missing in my CV in understanding the financial side of it. So I obviously understood customer contracts and the revenue and the billing and getting the money in, but I didn't have the budget experience managing a P &L and understanding all of those processes that happened behind the scenes. In some cases behind the scenes. I always loved it. So I'd already gone back and studied accounting and how it works and investments.

So when I moved into Deluxe, that was one big chunk of it for me to get my leadership career progressing. I knew I needed to get that experience. And it wasn't actually the industry at the time that I'd focused on, although a lot of people do go into that sort of industry because they're very passionate about it. I've been very passionate about the technology and I've always sort of had an interest in that side of things as well from an entertainment perspective and an arts perspective.

Teri (04:37.346)
I think those two things sort of lined up quite nicely. Also when I met the people at Deluxe, you get a synergy, I think, where you know you're gonna learn from them and develop and grow. And that was a big part of it as well. So there was that opportunity that lined up quite nicely with the gaps that I felt I had at the time.

Caroline Kennedy (04:58.371)
Yeah. And I mean, for you, you, you transformed the region when you were at Deluxe. So when you stepped into the role of general manager for APAC, what was your vision for the company in the region and how did you plan to achieve it?

Teri (05:16.408)
So the vision was twofold. Obviously, Deluxe is a global company, so it had a global vision. And then Australia and New Zealand, and then the APAC team, customer requirements and customer activity slightly different. So my role was to understand the local nuances, if you like, and work with our global, my global stakeholders to align those two visions. I think the local industry was a little bit driving further. Australia being a big geographical footprint had different requirements to somewhere in Asia where, and this is in the cinema industry, the cinemas were quite close together and easy to access. Australia is very spread out. Our cinemas are all around the edges. So we had different requirements in trying to transform it from a very physical and analog environment to digital and electronic, getting the content out to the cinema. So my role in the leadership challenges there was trying to match those two needs, the pace that the Australian and Asia teams wanted to move at. And even in that region, there were different cadences and speeds that they wanted to do. Across Asia, there are locations that's very, very small, very easy to manage in an analog and physical way.

So that was a different pace and cadence to Australia. So taking the local people and the local stakeholders on that journey and then globally as well managing that within Deluxe. They were the two sort of leadership challenges that I faced during that.

Caroline Kennedy (06:55.791)
Yeah, because you're managing varied cultures as well. And that comes with a lot of nuances. You've got the Asia region, the Australia, New Zealand, and then the global and particularly US based. And they all have different nuances. So that would have been quite challenging, I could imagine.

Teri (07:17.23)
Yeah, it was fun, challenging, you know, lots of different challenges just for managing time. You had to have a new ability to manage the different time zones and be able to switch from one to the other and the different cultures and language barriers. Yeah, it was good.

Caroline Kennedy (07:35.449)
Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't have slept much with all those time zones.

Teri (07:39.278)
There were times when I saw people on Zoom at night and then I'd see them again first thing in the morning before I'd even seen my family.

Caroline Kennedy (07:47.451)
Now you achieved a lot in that role can you maybe talk to the listeners and the people viewing about the outcomes that you delivered because they were quite significant.

Teri (08:04.096)
Yeah, so the main outcome for Deluxe, think, was we led through a joint venture to transform the local cinema industry from physical to digital. And we saw us there for about seven or eight years. And when I first joined, everything was 100 % physical. anything that went into a cinema within the region was on the back of a truck or a bus or however it may be to get to some of those really regional cinemas. And there's some quite good stories along the way. So it's an industry where everyone has to work together to get the right outcomes. And they came up with their own little industry specific solutions to, you know, to service different regions and little even local little businesses that were set up to help service getting the content around.

So when we looked at transforming it to digital, there were two challenges there. Our solution for the technology was to work with GoffleX and another competitor that we did a joint venture with. And so there were those sort of challenges to understand legally the stakeholders, the technology, how we're going to service it. We were trying to do this obviously in a private company. So you have to be very mindful of the impacts on the costs but also how it's going to impact your customers because the industry was going through a very challenging time. We'd been through COVID, there wasn't content being made. So the cinemas and our customers, the distributors were facing all of these challenges whilst we're trying to do this transformation. So I think that the key learnings for me in trying to achieve those outcomes, and we did get to the end when I was leaving Deluxe, I think we were at around 80% in the area, I can't remember exactly, but it was a phenomenal amount.

So, you know, we did get there. The challenges that I faced and what I enjoyed about it was all of the negotiations with the different parties. You had to take so many people on the journey. Not everybody was happy about it, but trying to just understand the impact of the stakeholders along the way and to take them on that journey with us so that we could get to the outcome. Otherwise, we would just have constant barriers and constant ways that it was never going to happen. So really engaging with everybody and understanding their needs and what they wanted to get out of it so that we could adapt our service and work together to get the right outcomes for everybody was what managed to get us there.

Caroline Kennedy (10:47.683)
Yeah, well clearly you have strong influencing skills as well.

Teri (10:53.612)
Yeah, that comes with a listening side of it. You do a lot of listening to understand.

Caroline Kennedy (10:56.795)
Yeah, seeking to understand and that's so critical because if we only come from one perspective, then it is quite limited. But when we look at varied perspectives, that doesn't mean we have to agree with all perspectives, right? But when we see and understand all varied perspectives, then we can come up with a solution that is a win-win for everyone, which is what you just described, rather than trying to convince people that they need to do X, Y and Z. It's understanding their needs and their, the benefits to them and then crafting the message as a result of that so that they can get an understanding of how it will impact positively on them too and the benefits. Yeah.

Teri (11:41.07)
Absolutely. That was a really big part of it because it was different for different partners that we worked with. So it was a big, lots of conversations, lots of listening to understand and then putting yourself in their shoes to say, okay, well, this is how it's going to impact you. This is the win in this for you as much as there is the win for us. So commercially as an industry, it made, it made a lot of sense.

Caroline Kennedy (12:04.826)
Yeah. Yeah. Now managing demanding role while balancing family is clearly commendable. We all do it. Well, a lot of us do it. How do you navigate the challenges there with professional responsibilities and then also your personal commitments?

Teri (12:29.114)
That's a really very good question. I'm not sure I have the answer to that. I take each day as it comes. And I, I do try to be very organised and planned and know what's important for me to be at. And from a family perspective and a work perspective, I think that's been that's been really sort of key in managing the family so that they tell me where I need to be. have it technology, I have it set up, digital screen in our kitchen so that everyone can see what's going on. And there's a of remote, remote family management that happens sometimes because there was a fair bit of travel involved. So the organisation, communication within the family, being present when you're there and not sneaking away to go and take another phone call or whatever it needs to be. They're probably the key from a family perspective, but from a work perspective, having a really good team around you where everyone's performing, listening to each other, working together and understanding their roles and responsibilities, but also understanding what yours are too and knowing when they can step in for you or when they can't and when they need to either wait or engage or organise a next meeting or whatever it is. I found particularly at Deluxe, we had an amazing team.

And with the time zones, the challenges that we faced as a group, we could work together to make sure that we covered everything that we needed to with the global stakeholders, rather than one person having to do all of that communication in their evening or in their early morning or whatever it is. So I think those two things, you need to be organised, you need to prioritise consistently and be planning what's going to happen so that when things happen that you can't plan for, you've got the ability to either squeeze that into your day or change something around. And then there's obviously the support of the family as well.

Caroline Kennedy (14:52.665)
Yeah, yeah. And I think what I love about what you just said is that you have to recognise that sometimes you just things will not be within your control and you've just got to move with it as much as reasonably possible. Because I know certainly as leaders and not everybody's like this, but a lot of us like to feel as if we're in control all the time. And then when when things happen as they do, then we have to adapt and that's

That's a good skill to also be able to develop too. That uncertainty and sitting in the uncertainty and the adaptability, which is what you've just described whilst you're planned. You also know that everything's not going to go to plan and you just go with the flow as it does and do your best because none of us are perfect and all we can do is do our best in the moment.

Teri (15:48.556)
Yeah, I think that's right. I have, I'll admit I have struggled with that sometimes because you want to be in control. And I think I've worked really hard to get my week planned out so that I know where I've got to be and how it's going to work. And then you'll get stuck on a bus or in a taxi with traffic. And it's just that good reminder that you can't control everything. You have your little circle of control. I work to that. Then there's the influence around it. You've just got to remind yourself of that sometimes and keep moving forward and focusing on what outcomes need to happen.

Caroline Kennedy (16:22.499)
Yeah, yeah. The other element for you is what I believe anyway, one of your core strengths is leadership and being able to create high performing teams. Can you talk us through how you do that?

Teri (16:40.91)
Again, very good question. I like to think that's one of my strengths as well. I'm very much a people person and, but I do love the numbers. So I love a good spreadsheet and sitting there and I think trying to marry those two together is what gets good outcomes for the business and for the people. So I have a big focus on the emotional intelligence and really making sure that I understand who I'm working with, the role that I want them to be in. And obviously you go through an interview process or in some cases you're inheriting this person. You have an idea of what the role is, you understand who they are and then you can start to see the gaps and work on those gaps. I think that's one way of how I go about building the high performing teams. You've to look at the individuals.

But then you've also got to look across the team and go, okay, as the team, does everybody know each other? Does everybody have that right culture fit, the right values base? Are we driving towards the same outcomes? So from a team perspective, what gaps do we have to get there? What skills do we have to get there? And then constantly making sure the language that I use when I'm working with the team is consistent and aligned so that everybody's getting the same message.

Even the same words sometimes and making sure that they use the same words. I think that's probably one part of it just to get the right roles and people in the place. And then there's the cadence of making sure you're working together towards the outcome. So everyone needs to understand what their primary purpose in the bigger picture is and keep focused on it, but also understand what outcomes we're trying to achieve and whether that's the company goals, the vision, objectives that we've written down or solving a problem, if we're not all working together towards that one end point, whether it could be getting cinemas to electronic delivery for their content rather than a physical delivery, or it could just be that we want to make a process more efficient and we all need to pull together to reduce the amount of noise. Just being specific about what the outcome is and then constantly driving everybody and reminding everybody to get towards that outcome. So a couple of things that I do is around the language and the messaging in the meetings.

I always try and start with a purpose and I have it on the slide to bring everyone back. This is why we're in this meeting. Let's make sure that we focus on it. even during the meeting, say, okay, do you think, I'll ask the team, do you think we're still focused on that primary purpose of the meeting or have we, you know, this is a great conversation, but do we need to get back to this or should we be having that conversation? So that's one part of it, I think, to drive people forward. Educating people to, I think, from a leadership perspective on their roles and how they impact the financial statements and what the financial metrics are that we're working towards, I found that has a big impact for the people that are interested in it. It will really pull them up to help them deliver with you. For those that aren't, I can also recognise that and then come up with a way that they will work to achieve those objectives as well. Because obviously not everybody is motivated and wants to sit down there and read it. So presenting that data a little bit differently can take them on that journey.

And the last thing is probably respect. We have to remember that everybody's got a backstory. Most people come and do the best that they can do. They don't want to, people don't want to let anybody down or it's not why we work together. And I think having that respect, reminding people sometimes that, know, yep, that person made a mistake, but you don't know what happened. So let's just not get frustrated, understand it, fix it. And then as a team, how do we work together to stop it from happening next time around? Yeah, that's a big part of it for me.

Caroline Kennedy (20:53.475)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that because a lot of the time I'm talking about how we judge ourselves based on our intention and we judge other people based on behavior. And as humans, you'll find the majority of people are unconsciously doing that. And what you've just said is people do have good intentions. We know our own intentions, but we can fail to think about other people's intentions. And when we do think about other people's intentions, then we start to have a greater sense of them as well. And know that they are doing their best and they are trying their best and their intention is to, to bring their best self. They might not always do it. I might not always do it. And that's okay. But when we think about it, as an intention as opposed to a behavior, it just really shifts the lens of what we view it through to.

And, and I loved what you said about before about the financial elements and how you love the financials. And I actually think for you, whilst you love the financials, you see the story in the numbers in the data, right? And I was just talking to somebody yesterday about this exact point is that once you start to look at the metrics and you see the story, that skill can actually then be transferable to humans because humans have patterns and behaviors and like their data as well, right? And once we start to see that that individual, that's their core need or they do this for this reason, or we know that that's a pattern, then we can adapt how we engage with them based on that.

And a lot of people don't recognise that when their strength is in the insights and the story from data, just how much it can translate to people. We don't always marry that up, but clearly you, and you might not have recognised it, have been able to do that because you've really transferred that skill to human behavior as well.

Teri (23:13.27)
Yeah, I think, I think that's something I have naturally in me to do, but something I've also tried to build on over time, because I know I can adapt the way I work and the way I ask questions, or instruct or drive or hold accountable whatever it is that I'm trying to do. I will adapt it for different people once I've got to know them. And I think that's part of my, you know, my driving is I like to get to know people and what their drivers are. So if I can get the gap that whatever they want you to achieve personally and line that up with what I need them to achieve, then it's much easier to go on that journey together. And I can change the way that I work with them.

Not everybody can do that, especially in the media and technology industry. If you've got creative people and then you've got someone very logical, trying to marry those two people can be quite different quite challenging, quite thought provoking. You sort of have these different personalities that just really don't understand each other. And then you throw in cultures. You've got different cultures. In Australia, we're very multicultural. So even if you're not working across the borders, you've still got them locally to work through. And I think that goes back to the emotional intelligence that we talked about earlier. You have to be able to, as a leader these days and moving forward, think, understand people and how they motivated and how to work with them to get the best out of them. You can't just work your way and push it forward. You have to do it together.

Caroline Kennedy (24:49.551)
Yeah, yeah. And I agree with you completely. That's a critical skill and it's a game changer when people can master it. And that takes time, right? Everything's incremental and it's not easy to do even though it might sound easy right now as we're talking about it. It's actually one of the most difficult skills to build upon. But when you just focus on it, it naturally builds organically for a lot of people, but not for everybody, as you said. And for some people it is innate.

And now if we talk about your current role at Bilue, tell me a little bit about that and your vision for what you guys are trying to achieve.

Teri (25:31.256)
So Bilue is, as you mentioned earlier, a mobile app and web development company, and they're very much an Australian-based organisation. Sydney and Melbourne, like you said, our clients are Australian-based, and the vision is to bring world-class software to our environment so that we can positively impact our customers and their user journeys that they go on. My driver for this role was having spent a long time in customer-facing roles and particularly Deluxe was very customer driven and stakeholder driven and externally facing. I really wanted to spend more time focusing internally on those teams and supporting them to help the business grow. So want to spend a lot more time on the numbers side of it and see how I can impact that and also see my direct impact on the team and the people. So I joined Bilue about 12 months ago now and we have been on a growth journey.

This year has been challenging for us. I think there's been a lot of changes in the market and the way that the consulting services teams work. So it has been a challenging year balancing the people development and what our customers need. We've really noticed this last six months picking up. So the challenges that we have are constantly changing and working with that team of people and driving them forward is, has been very much about getting to know them and reprioritise, get those outcomes that we're looking for. But I guess just to round out and go back to your question is what I'm looking for is to see the impact that I can have. Whereas in a big global company like Deluxe, definitely had an impact, but big team around me. And there was lot of working together to get there. Here, smaller team, but very impactful. So I can see decisions that we make and how they impact the team, how they impact our customers, and what we're delivering.

So it's about marrying those two loves of mine, the people and the numbers, much closer together and taking the teams on that journey.

Caroline Kennedy (27:35.713)
Yeah, yeah. And what would you say your three biggest leadership lessons were?

Teri (27:44.302)
Three biggest leadership lessons. I think one of them is definitely self-awareness. I have always, whenever I've been to a meeting and I'm coming back from the meeting, whether it's client or internal, I'm always analysing how I performed in the meeting. So I've always been very self-aware and then critical of that to adapt how I go moving forward.

And I think that's been a real strength because then I know how I'm responding to other people. Did I listen well enough? Did I get the outcome I needed from the meeting? Was I prepared enough? All of those questions. I think that's one of them. I think the next one is as I stepped into leadership and being more, I guess, public in the role internally or the roles internally doing things like town halls and, you know, getting a fireside chats, whatever it is, is my self-awareness of me and then other people's view and listening is nowhere near as critical.

So I think that's really interesting in learning from a leadership perspective because they are positively looking towards you to take them on the journey. And I think that's a real win when you've got that team around you and that's that's what's happening. Of course, always you'll get someone that wants to put anonymous question through and make it a challenging environment. But that is, you know, less than 5 % of it most of the time. So the leadership learning for me is not to be so critical of myself in that moment and understand that, yes, it's good to be self aware, but you can take it a little bit too far.

Another learning, I think potentially that you're always learning. You you are, aren't you? You are always learning. And if it's about you or it's about other people or about the business, there's always something to be curious about and try and get down there and understand the industry changing technology, AI coming out, how's that going to impact us? How's that business using it? You know, you just got to keep learning and challenging that. So from a leadership perspective, having that ability to get out of your day-to-day and do that learning, whether it's podcast courses, whatever it is, or having the time to do some deep thinking about your work and knowing that when you should do that and how, you know, whether you're doing that deliberately or not deliberately. For me, it happens most of the time not deliberately, whether I'm running or walking or whatever it is. And then having the ability just to go and get stuff done because you just got to get stuff done sometimes.

Caroline Kennedy (30:44.794)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As we wrap up, and I want to circle back to what you said about the rapidly changing and technology and AI. What are your thoughts on the future trajectory of technology services in our region?

Teri (31:03.896)
Technology services in our region always have to be customer led from from Belu's perspective, we're very focused on delivering the outcomes for the customers. We, we're a consulting business, so we're working and always seeking to understand how we can get better outcomes for our customers across the board and understanding that technology. I think the services have to continue to be more specialised and understood.

We in our region are not as advanced in the way that we protect our data or the way that we work together with technology and it's all integrated. We haven't had that infrastructure set up here like we have like in the UK and in the US. So I think as a technology services company, we have to continue to invest in the cyber security and all of those sorts of areas as well as AI. There's so much change happening, you have to invest in those skills and bringing it in to understand it so that you can better service your customers because they don't necessarily understand what the need is and how the technology is developing to impact them. And I think I've done a fair bit of reading this year on the US and the UK and the investment that businesses in those regions are putting into the development of AI and cybersecurity and data security and information security within their business is much higher. So that's something that we need to bring and push out to our customers here and understand how that can impact this region. Otherwise we do become a target for those challenges, which we've seen in the press already.

Caroline Kennedy (32:40.621)
Yeah, yeah. And I've seen it in businesses as well. And even just recently getting a letter from my accountant and ASICs around data breaching and I was like, just is never ending. And it is critical for Australia to be on the front foot of that. Yeah.

Teri (32:55.626)
Absolutely. We're very much targeted and we need to keep investing.

Caroline Kennedy (33:01.813)
Yeah, yeah. Okay, and what legacy do you hope to leave behind? Big question, I know.

Teri (33:11.214)
My, I want people to understand that I will try to make the right decision. Well, I will make the right decision for the business, but I will also make the right decision for people as well within the business. So I always want to have that reputation of being fair and just and not having any driver that doesn't get the right outcome.

So, and I, you know, I've been told that I do deliver that. And for me, that is sometimes just explaining to people why those decisions have to be made in a language that they understand in that moment. So whether you're having to reduce costs to reduce your team size, or you just say to people, can't deliver that training right now. So if it's a negative thing that's going to impact them, helping them understand why, or if it's a positive thing, then also explaining what outcomes we're expecting to get from it.

So yeah, I would like to leave that legacy of being fair and just, doing the right thing by the business and the people.

Caroline Kennedy (34:18.327)
Yeah, I love that. Because it is about others and not necessarily just, you know, it's not about you. It's it's being people centric. And that's one of the key qualities that I think are your strength. Now last question. We've worked together, what was it like working with me?

Teri (34:40.354)
Fantastic. I've missed you and I've thought about you a lot this year. I think having that external advice and counsel that is very sound, trusted with deep experience is something that you can't get internally within a business because you need that external sounding board. And I think the way that you look and reframe things back to me, and I'm sure you do it with other people as well, is really motivating and inspiring because I'm building on what I already have. And so you manage to recognise those strengths and then build upon them, but also challenge me in a way that gave me confidence to take those skills and develop them further. One of the big things that I remember is keep asking questions. And I think at that time, I really needed that direction. So, I really appreciated it. But I know that I enjoyed working with you at the time and because one, because I miss it, but I still have things that pop up from time to time. And I think, what would Caroline say or do or, you know, and that that voice is still there. So it was very impactful that six or so months that we had and definitely something I would like to continue. And I'm still, I've read your book several times, like I follow you. You know, you really have had that positive results for me and the progression that I've had. And I'm sure that is echoed with the other people that you've worked with. So it was fantastic. And I was reasonably suspicious of getting external coaches before we worked together. So definitely turn that around.

Caroline Kennedy (36:24.347)
That's good, I'm pleased to hear that. And you know how many times I hear from people I work with that they hear my voice in the moment? What will Caroline say? What will Caroline do? And I love that because for me it's all about having that impact and helping people to become that next level version of themselves. And I genuinely love being able to see that evolution of people too.

Teri (36:58.668)
Yeah, it's why you're doing that, isn't it? It's why you can tell that's why you're doing that because you want to help people progress and be the best version that they can be.

Caroline Kennedy (37:07.267)
Yeah, and get whatever outcomes. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insightful journey and experience with us. I think your story highlights the importance of adaptability, innovation and balancing leadership in today's dynamic landscape can be difficult, but you can have a holistic approach. It doesn't necessarily just need to be one dimensional. You can still look after people while delivering on numbers and delivering on growth, et cetera, and you can do that together. So thank you so much, Teri, for your insights today and your time. I truly appreciate it.

Teri (37:47.64)
Thank you, Caroline. I appreciate your time too. It's been good to talk to you.