Ep. 32 Justin Cantelo, CEO of Housing Plus – The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 32: Justin Cantello, CEO of Housing Plus

Caroline Kennedy (00:02.049)
Welcome back to the Honest CEO Show where we uncover the real stories behind extraordinary leaders. I'm your host Caroline Kennedy and today I'm thrilled to be joined by Justin Cantello, the CEO of Housing Plus. Welcome, Justin.

Justin (00:18.648)
Thanks Caroline, thanks for the welcome.

Caroline Kennedy (00:21.038)
Now under Justin's leadership, Housing Plus has become a leading provider of social and affordable housing in the regional New South Wales area, tackling one of the most pressing issues of our time, housing insecurity. But behind the success is a journey filled with challenges, bold decisions and unwavering commitment to creating positive change.

And today Justin will share his journey from his early career to leading organisations that not only provides housing but also empowering communities which is so important. Now for context, Housing Plus is no small organisation. It's a 70 million plus business and it has over 170 employees. So it's a big organisation to lead Justin, isn't it?

Justin (01:22.348)
Yeah, that's right. There's a lot of complexity within the organisation because we provide a number of different services, which includes the development of new homes, as well as providing support services such as homelessness and domestic violence services, and then managing over 1,400 properties across the regions.

Caroline Kennedy (01:43.446)
Yeah, it's huge. So let's start with Justin, can you take us back to the beginning? What first inspired you to pursue a career that combines leadership with community impact?

Justin (01:59.352)
Yeah, so I suppose my trade was that I was a nutritionist and working in public health mainly. And at the time where I made that career change, I was working for an Aboriginal controlled organisation in Northern Territory running public health programs across multiple remote communities. And I experienced a lot of frustration by management and leadership.

And government decisions that didn't understand what was happening on the ground. And I felt that I could make the greatest impact and the biggest difference for people on the ground if I was at the table when those decisions were being made. And so I suppose that's when I started my journey into management and leadership.

Caroline Kennedy (02:49.9)
Yeah. And isn't that interesting because you know, that theory of leading the change and being the change and stepping into that. And, and it's admirable that you made that choice to say, I need to be sitting at that table to influence those outcomes. Yeah. Now before taking on the CEO role at housing plus you had an extensive career as you've just mentioned in the sector. So what was the pivotal moment that made you say, want to lead an organisation like this?

Justin (03:26.98)
Yeah, well, I think it was through my success working here at Housing Plus, because I have been with Housing Plus for 10 years and we've gone through a lot of change and I've observed some good leaders over that time. And I think building my own confidence, observing other leaders and it just, the opportunity came up where the CEO at the time moved on and I just felt I had that confidence that I could do the job and that you know I was well placed and could really help lead the organisation into the next stage of growth and improvement.

Caroline Kennedy (04:08.674)
Yeah.

And I also think that signifies the significance of when you're in an organisation and organically stepping up into that leadership element because you know the organisation, you know the foundations of it. And I do say with a lot of people that I work with, even if they're not CEOs, they can organically step up into being that leader, which is what you've just described, right? You just knew that that was your next stepping stone. And you'll probably find that you were doing

Caroline Kennedy (04:39.638)
a lot of that organically anyway prior to stepping up and that's how a lot of leaders get recognised for their capability in being a CEO too because it is quite generalised isn't it? You go from being perhaps in one area like for me with sales and marketing but then up into being a CEO and it becomes more generalised in terms of responsibility too.

Justin (05:04.77)
Yeah, absolutely. It's that transition over time and adapting to the different requirements of the role because I started in the management level then moved into executive level and then eventually CO.

Caroline Kennedy (05:19.746)
Yeah, great. What was your vision when you stepped into the role as CEO? Did you immediately see the scale of the challenges or did it reveal itself over time?

Justin (05:30.286)
Hmm.

I think because I had been in the organisation for a while, I understood the challenges, perhaps not as well the challenges specifically related to CEO. Our previous CEOs were pretty good at, you know, holding their own and, you know, managing issues involving the right executives. So there's parts of the business in terms of challenges that I wasn't aware of because they were in different parts of the business that I worked in. So certainly within, you know, HR or people and culture and the community services side of the business, because I was mainly working in the development side of the business, certainly opened up to a lot of the people challenges, I think, and also we're working with very complex clients who've come from extremely disadvantaged backgrounds and just understanding how important it is to have the right people and compliance within the space is extremely important with our funding bodies and so on. so yeah, was certainly a steep learning curve, that's for sure. But certainly observing previous leaders in the organisation because other exec were given that launch pad to be able to manage their departments. it was certainly historically a good opportunity for us to lead as executives.

Caroline Kennedy (07:11.318)
Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because one of the things you and I talk about a lot is the moving from being the doer per se, right? When you are at that executive level and you have an element of responsibility and then when you really step up into CEO, it's becoming that orchestrator of particularly around the vision and knowing where you need people to go and helping them to craft their own vision for what they want to achieve too and helping to orchestrate that direction. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin (07:44.854)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's certainly been a big transition. when moving into the C role is more learning, to be that orchestrator more so, and, and giving that responsibility, empowerment to, the executives to, to run their own departments. And it's a different skillset because, you know, in my previous role as a director of development, obviously the, you know, we had a strong team of managers.

And they look after theirs, but there was still a lot of doing. Whereas in the CEO role, there's a lot less doing and a lot more supporting, asking the right questions and just helping them to deliver what they think is right and challenging them on things as well as supporting and encouraging.

Caroline Kennedy (08:32.908)
Yeah, and helping them to unpack their thinking too, right? Because that's part of the process of that orchestrating. And when we're in the middle of something, sometimes it's hard to see with clarity what's needed and helping them to unpack that clarity too. Yeah, yeah.

Justin (08:48.834)
Yeah, absolutely.

Caroline Kennedy (08:50.99)
So Housing Plus operates in a sector that faces complex challenges, right? From funding limitations to the growing needs of affording housing, particularly in this housing crisis and with interest rates, et cetera, and people not necessarily being able to afford housing. What were the biggest obstacles you encountered when you first became the CEO?

Justin (09:19.32)
Yeah, well, I think that certainly, you know, the people side, like I mentioned before, particularly in the housing and the development side to deliver the social and affordable housing and specialist accommodation. The funding pipeline is sporadic and irregular, and it's really hard to resource your internal development team when you don't have a regular pipeline of funding because it's all very competitive. so supporting and resourcing a team to efficiently deliver housing is certainly a big challenge. And the other one that I touched on before is certainly within a regional context, the pool of talent is challenging at times and a lot of the roles are highly skilled roles and we have to do a lot of work to attract good people, whether they're from the regions or from, you know, Sydney or other major cities. We've actually done a lot of that recently and, you know, with varying degrees of success, sometimes it works out really well and other times it doesn't. And we're certainly getting better at that, identifying the right people, the right personality that aligns with our culture and understands the regions, or is adaptive to be able to understand the regions while being well qualified and experienced in their area.

Caroline Kennedy (10:59.116)
Yeah and I always say you either win or you learn through circumstances and I wonder what's your biggest learnings to date in terms of getting the right people on the bus.

Justin (11:10.34)
Yeah, I think it's really focusing first on getting the right personality that the personality is just so important and depending on what the role is, obviously experience and skills are really important also. And so I think it's just spending more time at the front end, know, through the recruitment process to ensure that we do get the the right people. you know, we've implemented different strategies to achieve that, whether it's through personality profiling for particular roles, and also using recruiters for roles where the pool is not always very, very large, and it's challenging to find the right people. So we'll certainly use recruiters for particular roles.

Caroline Kennedy (12:07.788)
Yeah, yeah, it was interesting. I was just having a conversation before this podcast, where somebody I'm working with are actually recruiting for a very senior role in their organisation. And there was one individual in particular that they were very interested in. And certainly this individual had a significant amount of experience. And and I know that this it's kind of mine. She wanted, she's like, this is the person I want. And I said to her, it's interesting because when you're recruiting at an executive level, it's very different. And one of the things I noticed on the individual CV was there was a lot of, grew a business from X to Y, which is quite significant, but what lacked in the CV was how they did it. Try it.

And any recruitment specialist will tell you that that's a critical element. And if it's not there, it can be a red flag. So there's critical things like that, that sometimes we just don't know, right? And particularly when we're recruiting at that executive level, it's so critical to the experts know what to look out for. And they know exactly what those critical opponents on it's such a good point to news being strategic in using them particularly at that executive level because they're the roles that okay, we're going to get wrong occasionally because that's just you know part of the process but when you do it can be quite painful to comment

Justin (13:46.252)
Yeah, I think it's so important to spend that extra time at the beginning to make sure you're confident. within a regional setting, know, sometimes you don't get a lot of applicants. And on reflection, there's been some roles where we probably should have not recruited at that time and paused and potentially looked for other ways to fill that role on a short-term basis, whether it's through consultants or, you know, really depending on the role, just to make sure we get the right person. Because as you said, yeah, if it's the, if it's not a good recruitment, it can cause so much time and stress. you know, if it doesn't work out. Yeah, absolutely.

Caroline Kennedy (14:28.588)
And distraction. And the distraction has an opportunity cost. But I really like what you said before about personality first and foremost. And I think that is so critical because 80 % of success is behavioural, right? And if we can see the profile, the personality profile and using those tools, it gives us a better indication of whether they're a good fit because

Caroline Kennedy (14:57.838)
There's always a role for everybody but sometimes it's not, they're not a good fit for the role that we're looking for because of variable reasons too. Yeah, yeah. Now what was a defining moment or crisis or challenge where you felt everything was on the line and how did you navigate through it.

Justin (15:19.33)
Yeah, so I think it was probably within the first six months of the role. The first three months is probably the honeymoon period where I was just, you know, meeting people and getting used to the role. And then that next three months was quite overwhelming. And I think that I certainly doubted myself in that next three months as to whether this role was for me, whether I could manage all the competing priorities and just the sheer volume of things that I needed to be across. And I think the way that I navigated through it was a number of initiatives. So certainly having a good support of different people, other CEOs that I could chat with that I had known over the years that I reached out with and and learned that you know that sort of Experience and feeling you know wasn't unique to myself Certainly having a business coach is a fantastic idea because it's very similar in that You've got someone that you can share What's going on and also learn? you know from the coach that obviously being yourself that we, you know, can navigate problems together and I'm not going through it alone. And then I think it was another really important part, which I certainly haven't mastered, but having a focus on it is self care. So whether, you know, it's different for different people, but for me it's, it's exercise and meditation and spending time having that time with family. Limiting, the amount of hours that I'm working just to make sure that I'm achieving that more balanced lifestyle. But as I said, there's still plenty of room for improvement there.

Caroline Kennedy (17:27.16)
Yeah, there always is for everybody. One of the things I really liked about what you said just then was the support network, right, but also is that high achievers generally can have imposter syndrome. And a lot of CEOs are high achievers and therefore you're like you said, it's not unique to any individual. And it's a very common theme.

I'm not necessarily saying that that's what you had, but I see it time and time again, you know what I mean? Where we just all of a sudden think, am I cut out for this? Am I, you know, there's a lot going on here. And I do see it quite a bit. And I just wanted to reinforce that for listeners as well. And for anyone watching that, if you feel that way, it's perfectly normal. And it is associated with being a high achiever. And I actually think sometimes, and there's a lot of research to support this. That's why high achievers do so well, because they're constantly questioning, are they doing enough? Is it enough? But there's a flip side to that as well, because when you're constantly switched on, then as you said, we don't necessarily prioritise self care because we're so focused on doing our best in that moment and doing more than perhaps is necessary as well. That's kind of a pattern I see quite regularly.

Justin (18:59.268)
Yeah, I think you've touched on a really good point there and I think that I certainly was experiencing imposter syndrome and it probably does come around in cycles depending on what it is and I think it's a really good point you made around, you know, high achieving, which I think is part of the reason why I was experiencing that, you know, being overwhelmed is because I I suppose, attempting to see that high standard that I'm used to delivering myself that pressure that I put on myself across the other or the rest of the organisation. However, realising that, you know, my way is certainly not always the right way. In fact, often it's probably not. And it's really shifting that focus to understanding where team members are out and just supporting them on their pathway of improvement that they're following. And I think the more I've shifted to that attitude, that change in attitude and approach, the less overwhelmed I feel. And I think that's part of the strategy because I'm, I'm, trusting my team. I'm, I'm, I'm putting, I'm empowering them to run their departments and, they're really, they've got their direction. I've got their KPIs they've got their plans on how they're to make those KPIs and they're really just reporting to me. And then as I mentioned before, asking the right questions, challenging them on certain points, maybe I hope to help them look at challenges in a different way. And it's certainly, it's just a different way of leading and management that I've certainly learned from you and has been really important for me managing my own stress and well-being.

Caroline Kennedy (20:56.47)
Yeah. And it's about setting the team up for success, right? Because you're only as good as the team around you. And when they're elevated, everybody elevates like you've just articulated. Now advocating for social and affordable housing often requires balancing business goals with a mission driven approach. So how do you manage the, I suppose the tension between the two?

Justin (21:21.666)
Yeah, well as a not-for-profit organisation, we have our vision which is improving people's lives through independence and choice. our mission is to provide these services such as deliver new affordable housing as well as providing support service for people in need. And as a not-for-profit or really the more correct term is a for-purpose organisation. We actually do generate a profit, but as a charity, we reinvest that surplus each year into more services. And so it's balancing, the way we get that balance is we're achieving against our strategy, which is to live with more homes, more services, win new contracts to deliver those services, but in a financially sustainable way.

So for example, we have our seven golden rules of finance. And as long as we're meeting all those sustainability financial metrics, because we're not about making a profit to pay shareholders, for example, we're there to deliver homes, but we can't do that unless we're financially sustainable. within the not-for-profit space, it's quite clear once you set it out on how to achieve that balance.

Caroline Kennedy (22:47.254)
Yeah, yeah, I really like how you've articulated that. Because it's interesting, I don't like that term not for profit either, because you need to be commercially viable to have a broader impact, right? Like you said, because you're reinvesting it. So it is critical. But I like the lens in which you looked at that meaning, we have a broader impact if we are commercially viable and financially sustainable. Yeah, yeah, that's good way to describe it.

Under your leadership, Housing Plus has introduced innovative solutions to address housing needs. Can you share one of the most impactful initiatives or programs that you've spearheaded?

Justin (23:26.916)
Yeah, I think a recent example is our support and accommodation service that we provide for women and children escaping domestic and family violence. So we were one of the first not-for-profits to deliver this kind of property that provides independence, privacy through a self-contained unit or a complex of self-contained units that also has a community facility that provides support on site. And so we advocated, we were working closely with government to bring this initiative forward in the regions. We ran a first pilot here in Orange. And then that led to the government funding, you know, in part there were obviously a lot of other important players in that as well. But we were part of it.

And the state government ended up releasing a large fund of half a billion dollars for this type of asset and service. And so we're now currently building another 10 of those across regional New South Wales through the government funding and other important partners as well, a of community fundraising and sponsors to make that happen.

Part of that, also, because we're one of the first to deliver one of these outcomes in Orange, we developed a design guide for the sector. So all the learnings that we gained through our delivery of the first one and through that pilot, and we shared that knowledge. You could say that we shared our IP because we knew it was going to be a benefit to the sector. So for other community housing providers like ourselves, other homelessness services, if they were delivering that kind of property, they could certainly learn from our design guide.

Caroline Kennedy (25:35.724)
Yeah, well done. I mean, that is such a in demand and highly needed solution and service out there. And it really demonstrates your impact because you not only did you facilitate the first round, but then you have that seat at the table to influence the broader outcome as well. And then sharing that IP and that has a significant impact that you guys must be so proud of. Well done.

Justin (26:13.41)
Yeah, was certainly a big team effort across the executive and particularly our committee services team, in particular the DV team.

Caroline Kennedy (26:25.11)
Yeah, yeah. And certainly much needed. And I have no doubt it's under invested, even though the government have made a significant investment in that area, which is very positive anyway, because then it will start to make those inroads that we need in that area. Yeah. When you look back at your time as CEO, was there a moment when you felt a breakthrough like things were falling into place?

Justin (26:56.288)
Yeah, I think as we spoke before about that change in approach around orchestrating and assessing where each executive member was at so that I can support them from there. And I think getting the executive team into a place where they were, you know, empowered and operating independently, you know, clearly defining roles. so people knew what the executive team knew what their responsibilities were. And it's still absolutely a work in progress. But I think it was that shift to empowering the teams that that was a breakthrough through for me, certainly.

Caroline Kennedy (27:48.032)
Yeah, okay, that's a really good example. And if you were to go back and offer advice to your younger self at the start of your career, what would it be? Million dollar question.

Justin (28:00.036)
Yeah, I think it's probably, you know, not to worry as much that, you know, there's so many things that are out of, you know, back then that were out of my control. There's only so much that I can do within a day. you know, worrying about things in the future, you know, beyond that day is I mean obviously got a plan but worrying about things that are sort of out of your control or beyond that day of your influence. I think you know I'm still reminding myself today of that point but I think it's a really important one that you know obviously focus on the things that you can control and to not worry about the things that I can't.

Caroline Kennedy (28:54.67)
Yeah, that's really sage advice. And I would say that like I said before, psychology is 80 % of success, right? And a lot of people think it's skill and technique. But it's the psychology, which is a skill in itself anyway. And what you've just said is so critical. And I see it time and time again. And a lot of individuals when they master that element and look mastery is we're never going to be perfect. We don't master it 100 % but everything's on a spectrum and if we can go from mastering it a little bit more even incrementally what happens is we certainly go from the overwhelmed to be more feeling a sense of peace, know, that internal peace where we show up differently and we have a different focus too. And so I think that is, that's great advice for younger self. And I'm sure many listeners and people watching could, could resonate with that and will resonate with that.

What legacy do you hope to leave behind, not just with Housing Plus, but as a leader in the space?

Justin (30:12.548)
So I think, you know, the focus on people and creating a business and environment where people can flourish, they're supported, I think is extremely important, particularly within the sectors that we operate in that can be very stressful, particularly for frontline staff, just the importance of providing that support for our staff.

And to leave behind a culture where that is a top priority. think that would be, that's really important for me. I think also the structures that have been put in place that are sustainable so that when there is staff turnover, those structures are still in place that are just so important for a business to operate in a consistent and efficient way. I think that, yeah, those are probably the important ones, I think, is really getting the right structure that stays in place and then just looking after our people from a care perspective, but then also a development perspective as well.

Caroline Kennedy (31:35.244)
Yeah. And it's the people that make a business, right? Employees, the people that you service, the clients, and that is so critical. And I can, I know with you that that's not just,

Caroline Kennedy (31:50.38)
You know, line that you're throwing out, genuinely care about the impact both within the people of your business and the clients that you serve. And I think for any leader, having that legacy of impact is, is one of humility too, right? It's about being of service to others and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's lovely, I think too. Yeah. Yeah. It's beyond self. And hence why you're in the role in the sector.

Justin (32:20.004)
Hmm.

Yeah, and I think you often say, you know, what can we be doing to turn the dial? And I think putting that energy and focus on your people will ultimately have the greatest impact on the client, our clients and tenants. And so really, you know, particularly that exec and CEO level, think it's really important that focuses on people because that's going to ultimately create the biggest impact for our customers as well.

Caroline Kennedy (32:56.438)
Yeah, okay, great. Thank you. And one final question. And you mentioned this before, but I find a lot of CEOs tell me it's lonely at the top. And having, as you said, a sounding board is an invaluable asset to them. And in our work together, what would you say has been the most unexpected insight or breakthrough you've experienced?

Justin (33:32.42)
Yeah, I think it is, you know, we've covered a lot of things today. I think that, you know, absolutely that orchestrating is a big one. But in relation to, you know, being lonely in this role, I think just the importance of having that support network is so important.

Caroline Kennedy (34:25.431)
Yeah. Yeah, good. All right. Well, thank you so much, Justin, for sharing your incredible journey with us. Your story is very, I think, inspiring and impactful, and I've really enjoyed our chat today.