Ep. 31 Narinder Singh, CEO of QE Food Stores – The Honest CEO Show

The Honest CEO Show, Episode 32: Narinder Singh, Founder of QE Food Stores

Caroline Kennedy (00:00.312)
Welcome, Narinder Singh, the visionary founder of QE Foods, to the Honest CEO Show. Narinder's story is nothing short of inspiring. From the beginnings in Punjab and migrating to New Zealand as a teenager to building an independent grocery empire here in Australia, his journey is marked by bold decisions, a relentless work ethic and a commitment to quality and community, not to mention his appetite to being a leading innovator in his industry. So today we're gonna uncover how we talk bold risks that a lot of us would probably think twice about.

The challenges he overcame in the early days and the strategies that helped him scale QE Foods into one of Sydney's most loved grocery brands. Plus, Narinder will share his lessons and his learnings along the way and what his next stages are in terms of setting his sights on 50 stores by 2030. So welcome, Narinder. It's a pleasure to have you here.

Narinder Singh (01:11.8)
Thank you Caroline for that wonderful introduction. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure.

Caroline Kennedy (01:17.58)
Yeah, you're welcome. So let's go right back to the beginning. Can you take us back to your childhood, particularly the early days and then in New Zealand? How did those experiences shape your view of hard work and opportunity?

Narinder Singh (01:37.162)
Well, that's very good question. Sometime I often nowadays think about that I became successful at the age of seven. And because as you as you go through your journey, you look back at what was the trigger point that caused me to experience what I have experienced as far as business success. So obviously, I was born in Punjab, my dad was overseas trying to make living for the family. And there was obviously a lot of turmoil at that time, political turmoil in the country as well. And we weren't overly well off. We had, I think our family land is about five acres and we were living off that as well as my dad's earning from overseas. So we were just kind of getting by and my cousins, were quite, they were a lot richer than us, so to speak. And so when I remember we didn't have a TV and if I go and watch it, TV and I knock on their door and they will lock their door. Like kids, that's what kids do. I don't have anything against them. But I was like, I'm never going to watch a movie in my entire life when I watch a TV. And now I know why I actually have never been into movies, because something happened that I decided I will never watch movies.

And then I remember, and I would have been around the age of six or seven and they were having almonds and they were sharing it with other kids, but they weren't sharing it with me. And I can recall that vivid experience going, I'm going to be so successful. I want to be very, very successful and very wealthy. And I want to make sure that no one misses out on almonds. And I think, yeah, and that something happened. I, know, for me, it's very important to give back to the community and we can dive into all that kind of stuff. And I think it's all triggered by those experiences from a young age. And saying that, and I was very sick as a child and my mum often worried about if I would ever, know, when am gonna stop breathing kind of thing. And I was always picked on by my cousins and neighbours because I was sick and all sorts of things were saying. But I think mothers play the biggest role in our lives. They write their destiny and my mum would keep telling me, you're going to be just like your dad, just as handsome, as good looking and you were born to be king. You are born to be very, very successful. And when I became a cherry king last year, she was reminding me, see, I told you.

Caroline Kennedy (04:24.206)
That's great and it's interesting like even though you can reflect upon your childhood and you can see the situations that shaped you and perhaps even where you've got like the unconscious elements that might come into play even though when you reflect you can see that they're clearly conscious for you. That's one of the things I always thought was a strength of yours is being able to reflect and take insights and be able to then look at how you use those insights for your own personal development. And I loved how you talked about your mum too and the reinforcement of you can be anything and that belief and reinforcing that belief too in you, which really drove you forward. And then also to--19, you made the bold decision to come over to Australia, you convinced your father to sell the family home to fund that move. What gave you the confidence to take that leap? And how did the family react?

Narinder Singh (05:40.455)
Look, there's another side to that story. I never really told my dad to sell his house to give me the money so I can do business. But my dad was also, think, now I've learned that he took a huge risk on me. He said, if he didn't take that risk, we would be where we were. And if he did take the risk and if I did something with it, then things will be much different in future.

But it's not easy and I think we were looking for, I won't go too much into detail, we were looking for a kiwifruit orchard because that's what we grew up doing. I think you've got to be able to make a decision and my dad obviously he took it, making a big decision taking the risk. But every time I would find something like a kiwifruit orchard to buy and he will take half a dozen of his friends who will always find some kind of faults in everything I look at and I thought it will never happen. I will never be able to buy a wheelchair here as long as dad brings his friend along because they're always going to find something because it's just the way it was. But then I decided to come to Sydney, have a look at Sydney in 2000 and I really fell in love with Australia and Sydney itself. And then I went back and I spoke to my dad that I'd like to go to Australia and do business in Sydney. It's a big market, it's a big opportunity. yeah, in New Zealand, it's like a Australian dream is very big. then my dad sold the property and gave me $200,000 in 2000.

And so, before I left, my auntie lives in America, my dad's sister, and she said to my dad that he was out of his mind by giving this much money to 19 year old, he's going to go to Australia, he's going to piss it up against the wall and come back empty handed that you have lost your mind. And my dad's approach to that was like, look, that's his share. I will not give him anything else and we will work towards giving, you know, doing something for my younger brother. And that would be my shit if I stuffed it up. And then I moved to get my mum, asked me not to let my dad down. And I made a firm decision that when I moved to Sydney, I bought a car and I lived in a car and I said, I will not spend any money from the money that my parents gave me to do a business. And I didn't, I lived in a car, to Westfield Shopping Centre, did my brushing and shower at the gym and then I worked and I can go on and on. But yeah, was, yeah, I did not spend any money.

And then I found a job and I was still living in the car and working and looking for a business at the same time.

Caroline Kennedy (08:37.91)
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's a great story as well of the belief that people have, particularly your parents had in you, and knowing that you were going to achieve something with it too, right? So they just knew what you were capable of. And that is a driver in itself, because even your mum saying, "don't let your dad down." Like that would have been a critical driver for you to say, I'm going to make this happen. And then the wise choice, obviously to work and to live frugally, I'm assuming at that beginning stage. And then even when you're building a business to know that this for you is so important. Now your first store in Darlinghurst must've been a huge milestone. Do you remember the day that it opened and opening the doors. What was going through your mind at that time?

Narinder Singh (09:39.029)
Yeah, I want to go back and just, I think I'm very grateful for my auntie to have said what she said at the time. I know I didn't like it at the time, but nowadays I look back and I think if she didn't say that, maybe I would have done exactly what she said I was going to do.

Caroline Kennedy (09:55.766)
Yeah, interesting. You wanted to prove her wrong. Yeah?

Narinder Singh (09:57.544)
Okay, and if she said that, yeah, look, prove her wrong. My mum told me not to let dad down. Maybe those conversations wouldn't have happened unless she said that. And maybe I would have come over here subconsciously, have done what she said I would do and then go back. Now, as you know, I did not have any experience running a business. So talking about the first door opening, it was very, very emotional for me because I would wake up every Saturday morning and buy the Sydney Morning Herald and the Telegraph because that's what we did. There was no online stuff. And I will look for businesses to buy and the business owners will be happy to sell, but the landlord wouldn't sign the lease for me because I was too young and had no experience, no work experience in Australia. So this saw me as a risk that I wouldn't be able to pay rent.

Cut long story short, I got rejected and I got rejected and I got rejected and I got rejected. And eventually I felt like, well, anyone ever sign the lease for me. All right? And I believe that if you keep knocking on the door, the door eventually will open. So now I call that virtue of persistency. I didn't know what I was doing, but that's our state. I remained persistent, you know? And eventually when I found the site on Victoria Street, Darlinghurst, the first thing I asked the agent to speak to the landlord if he would sign the lease for me. Bill Anton, he came from Greece at the age of 15 or 16. He spoke to him, this young, hungry 19 year old from New Zealand. He didn't even ask for a bond, he said just sign a lease for the young man.

Caroline Kennedy (11:35.415)
Wow.

Narinder Singh (11:37.532)
And then he would come, you know, so that was, when I heard that news, was, yeah, almost had tears coming down in joy. And then when I opened that store, it was, yeah, like, as you can imagine, was something that I was working toward for very long time. And then being a rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection, and then, and finally getting it, it was like, we all can have that feeling, right? Yeah.

Caroline Kennedy (12:05.772)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then I'm sure there was a feeling of and now I need to make this work and keep it and build upon it, right? So the joy of the outcome, but then you're like, what's next? I need to be able to maintain this and make it sustainable too, which would have, I'm sure hit home quite quickly.

Narinder Singh (12:28.015)
Absolutely. Yeah, so look, I was working seven days a week, 6.30 to 11.00 p.m. every night, and had lots of energy to keep doing that. you know, eventually it takes its toll. After about three or four years, you know, doing that, you start to have some health issues, and you think it's, yeah, I'm doing good, but I'm never going to do what I actually wanted to do in terms of the success I wanted to experience. It's just paying bills. Yes, I wasn't struggling. I just worked too hard to stay on top of things and that wasn't sustainable. And then in 2007, made the decision to start educating myself and took on a business coach.

Caroline Kennedy (13:22.326)
Yeah. Yeah. And I know that for you, self development has been a big part of your journey. And you're always investing in leveling up and learning and growing and, even with innovation, mean, I used to love our conversations about innovation. And you're always ahead of the game with that. So let's go down to innovation. Let's chat about that as well because when you're a leading innovator in your business and we'll talk about what you have done, but how do you make the time to think strategically and focus on ensuring that your future fit and that the business's future fit and that you're bringing in those innovations and you're leading the way?

Narinder Singh (14:17.986)
Yeah, so I think largely, I wouldn't say that it's all that like strategic planning and everything. I think a lot of it is just a natural evolution of everything. So, you know, from 2007, so when I took on my first coach, and that was just learning the ABC of very basic level business and setting up a six monthly goal, then break it down weekly. And then you see what your competitors are doing, what you're doing, and then you keep actioning. So that created a lot of growth and I think when you reach that growth you're faced with a new challenge.

As you go from one store to two and three you feel the need to a culture, it was probably the biggest innovation where we discovered values and mission and purpose and those things united us. It's the glue that holds the entire organization together, which makes everything seamless to implement and do because everybody's open to it. So culture is probably the biggest. It may not be seen as a technology, but I think it's still, it's probably the most innovative thing any business can do if you can really define your culture.

Caroline Kennedy (15:29.016)
Yeah. And I think too, like innovation isn't always technology. talk about this a lot. Innovation is what you've just talked about. It's culture. It's looking at leveling up its ongoing improvements. It's knowing those leverage points in your business and how to use them. And one of the critical things I would say about QE Foods and your leadership is the culture. And I noticed that like the culture that you've created and the family that you've created Is not an easy feat So let's talk a little bit about what you did to be able to create that culture in your business.

Narinder Singh (16:13.651)
Yeah, it goes back to 2010 with my coach Peter Dalton who said, look, you've got lot of things in your mind. How about we document? How about we start, put it on a piece of paper and then you start talking about them and you start living it. And he said first, it needs to become, and he said, I feel like it's a dream in your mind, but not quite the real in terms of maybe the way you go about doing business day to day, your interaction with your staff and suppliers and future potential stakeholders.

So we put it down and then, yeah, talking about them with staff and how we make a decision based on values, what is our mission, why we do what we do. And I think over time, they take on a personality of their own and they become so ingrained in you that you don't even know how to do things any differently. So it becomes a part of your subconscious behaviour. And so if that's how I'm talking, I'm living them as a leader, and then people around me, they take on those personality traits of the leader. And that when they first join, they experience firsthand, that's how the decisions are made, and you know. And you lift those values, for example, the three big things in terms of people are very intelligent. They see it whether you just saying it or you mean it. So when we did it, when we were opening a Paddington store, we made a decision to not sell tobacco in our store. So that's how it started. At first store, we made a decision not to sell tobacco because our purpose is to improve people's health, family time, support their lifestyle through quality food shopping, made easy experience.

And then, you know, in Paddington, the guy was selling gambling tickets. so lottery tickets. And that was a $40,000 license and everything. And I just said, look, that's not part of what we do. And he was shocked that it brings in lot of customers and it's generate $27,000 profit annually. you're not going to sell $18,000 worth of cigarettes that we do. And it's like, you couldn't believe it. I said, but that's okay. And we did not sell gambling tickets because it's not part of what we are about. Our purpose is to free people, so that we're not harmed.

And in Sydney markets, when we opened a cafe, they had a liquor licence and we made a decision. George was trying to convince our baristas that, it's very important, especially in the markets, because there's nothing else around that time of the morning. We've got to sell alcohol. And I said, George, that's not negotiable. Either we come here and do this or we just don't do it. So I think throughout the years doing this business, whether it was standing up, what we did during COVID, any decision where there was a financial loss, values were upheld, a financial loss was suffered. And I think that sent the strongest message through action of living the values.

Caroline Kennedy (19:20.834)
Yep. Yep.

And that's not an easy thing to do. And it is for you guys, right? And I love that, but a lot of people struggle with it, but it's just grounding to what is our purpose here. And I love the stories you shared about making conscious choices around what your values are and how you serve the community and not putting profit or money before that.

And I think that's one of the strongest foundations for your business is that community, right? And always putting people first.

And from the moment I met you, could tell that that was a strong value and who you are as an individual too. And I love that you share those stories because it's, it's just, it aligns with exactly who you are and then how your teams see you as a leader too. Yeah.

Narinder Singh (20:23.186)
So for example, staff, just the other day for example, I was in the store and a supplier said, look, they sent the wrong product and they gave us a credit and we got this new service like, they talk about technology adoption, is too good to go back? And I said, no, you know very well that, and I said, I'd rather beg than make money that way. And I said, but you know the values you've been in the business for a very long time, we don't make money on things that we haven't paid for.

It's a service. if the supplier given you a full credit for something that's sent wrong, you just donate it to Oz Harvest or Addison Pantry, or you just hand out to customers as a sample, but you don't sell it and try to maximize profit through. And it was a reminder for him. So these kinds of interactions happen all the time. just remember that.

So I've got to experience that's what you stand for. And then it's very easy.

Caroline Kennedy (21:22.488)
Yeah, yeah. And I want to focus on also to your community partnerships and you just mentioned Oz Harvest and I know you work with local schools and all that work you do is really inspiring. How has giving back shaped your brand and your personal leadership style as well?

Narinder Singh (21:45.604)
Yeah, look, we had partnerships with Oz Harvest and Addison Food Pantry and we have a partnership with our local schools where we send apples, boxes of apples to all the schools in our locality near each door. And that's huge because the letters that we receive from the principals and the schools thanking us and we basically almost find any initiative, any request received from the community. So if you look at our social media page, will see that, you know, someone reached out, they were going to do something on a beach, but the cancer and their brother passed away, two sisters requested, yeah, we provided food. And a lot of our suppliers actually do a check-in and contribute as well. The community part is huge, and it's a bit personal to me, and I think that the human emotion is probably the biggest one. Last year, know, this last year in November.

There's a cherry auction. every year, it was this year too, last weekend, which I did not participate. I was away and kind of thing. But last year when we went to, we were invited, of our suppliers, to purchase two tables and come and enjoy the evenings. And I remember calling Brendan Saturday morning and said, Brendan, I know it's a charity event and what is expected? And he said, look, nothing, just come along and enjoy the evening with your team.

I said sure. So when we went there and I said to the team, look, let's buy something around two or $3,000 prize that we just pay for at night at least, you know. It's not good to just come and eat and drink and at a charity event. we were all looking for $3,000 prize to buy something and then and then a doctor from, a Dr. David Miller, I think his name was, and he from Randwick Sydney Children's Hospital. And he gave speeches around, you know, never saying no to parents. And he said, we always say yes, we always give hope to parents. We just don't say no. And so he shared some stories. And while I was listening to his stories, and I was like, I was moved by that whole human emotion. And I'm thinking "you know what, last year we spent $100,000 on marketing through Uber in November. What did we get?" Nothing. We don't even know how that was spent and no results to be measured or whatever. I said, this year business is better and if one of my kids was sick and they needed help, I'd probably be selling a shop or my house or something. And I said, just do it, you know? And yeah, ended up, yeah, the auction, we pushed it up to almost $50,000 for that cherry box.

Caroline Kennedy (24:43.128)
Wow! Well done!

Narinder Singh (24:44.236)
And all the money that went to Sydney Children's Hospital, seeing kids and everything, yeah, so that human emotion giving back to the community is, yeah. Sometimes I link these things back to my childhood when I hear that, a position, give it back so I don't like seeing people miss out.

Caroline Kennedy (25:07.012)
No, and I love that about you because first and foremost, you are about others and we used to, you know, talk about that a lot. And you can even see this through our discussion right now. Like for you, we're talking about community, we're talking about people, we're talking about culture, we're talking about making decisions with that community being at the heart of everything. I wanted to go back because you even, and you might not necessarily recognise it because you are quite humble, building and creating, know, QE foods, 11 stores all over Sydney is no easy feat. And I know you reflect, but I don't think to the degree of how successful you've been. And so from a business perspective, I'd like to get some insights from you on the challenges that you faced, the biggest challenges that you faced in maintaining and growing the brand and what were your key lessons? Because I know you've got huge insights to be able to share with our listeners.

Narinder Singh (26:21.839)
Yeah, look, as you know, I'm really big on a lot of nature and I think the law of rhythm plays a huge role in terms of expecting for us to have a smooth ride all the way to the top just doesn't work. And I think nature has its own ways of creating instance or waking us up to get us back on track, whether, you know, we become complacent and things had to happen so we can get back on track, whether that is our health or whatever. Newtown second store was a massive challenge, running one store to two. was like, yeah, you think that you learned everything now you and you just go and copy paste and it should work. customers don't trust you. That's what that was the first lesson I learned. They want to get a receipt. They want to check. They want it to, you know, and it wasn't going well after opening and there was almost you know, every day going through the feeling of losing everything. But what kept me going was at that time was a 50 store goal. If we can't run two, how are we going to do 50? Okay.

And so, and worked with Coach Peter Dalton, I think I've been blessed by right mentors at the right time. And Peter will say that when the student is ready, the teacher just appears. So that's what he used to tell me, know, like, you, and he said, you, know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. That's just how it works. And so I think, yeah, so I've learnt the lesson of pricing, how important pricing is and still being able to achieve your margin and how you do that. So that was a really, really important lesson. But yes, it was really, really tough. And when we learned how to merchandise, develop pricing strategies that would work for Newtown customers, we were able to triple the sales in 12 months.

Caroline Kennedy (28:34.55)
Wow, well done, well done. And then continue to go on and open other stores as well.

Narinder Singh (28:37.7)
Yeah. And new stores, yeah. And then of course, new challenges, you know, multiple times you have to go, you do as an entrepreneur, I think as a leader, you do have to make, you are forced to make decisions that you believe in obviously, otherwise you wouldn't make it. But you do risk everything that you have worked for, because you really believe in this opportunity is the one that's going to propel you forward. Call it a courage. You've got to be able to take the risk.

Caroline Kennedy (29:17.334)
Yeah, yeah. And what would you say your proudest moments so far have been on this journey and what keeps you motivated?

Narinder Singh (29:27.897)
The proudest moment as a leader, it's in two parts. Creating opportunities, okay, really important. It's something that drives me, gives me the biggest joy that we are delivering quality food shopping, easy promise. Through this, that we are creating opportunities for suppliers and service providers and staff and promoting people from within. It is probably the biggest joy.

And I think the other one is goes back to COVID, which I wish is probably my most proudest moment ever because it goes back to that whole human emotion when we were setting up our Paddington store, it wasn't open, it was the 16th of March, I'll keep the story short. And this elderly lady came up to the store, she went around to five big supermarkets and as they were invited, like one hour early to do their shopping but only to face with empty shelves. And so, and she had a little tear coming down and she wanted to complain to Channel 9. And I said, look, we weren't open. I said, look, we're going to be opening, but we will be opening from 9 a.m. till 12 or disabled and elderly customers. Definitely. And we had a shop full of stock because we were stocking up to open our store on the 20th. And then we gave her the stock. I said, look, you can pay when we open. Not a problem. And then I went to the shop and I said to my team, look, someone's got to do something. It's so hard for elderly and disabled people, you know? And it was, it was. And I said, look, I'm going to take myself to Mascot, warehouse, and let's see what we can do. And I wasn't, and I wasn't going to be there on the opening. So I wasn't, that's the only store I was not present when the store opened, actually. It was Paddington.

And then, you know, I started making calls to suppliers and God knows from where this came in and I made a commitment, a pledge to reserve essential items. So if you visit a Kiwi food store and you can't find an essential item, write in your name and a number and we will, so no one have to go to five stores and we will bring that stock to you. It will deliver and we'll give you 20 % discount. But we were reserving all the essential items in the back room and all the managers at the time, we're going, you've lost the plot. We haven't even got stock and you promising something can't be delivered. And I said, look, let's just have a meeting every day. Let's work together. We can do it. Believe it or not, I was the only buyer at the time. And I felt like I had 200 buyers working for Kiwi because every time I call and I shared our calls with the supplies and we had a private transport company, because they were too busy, there was no special pricing. So I had a private transport company going, picking up stock from the supplier warehouses, bringing it back to Mascot. And then we were splitting the stock or distributing the stock to all the different stores. And support we got from suppliers, staff doing deliveries and volunteering delivering before work and after work. No one ever complained. They were receiving deliveries to almost 9.30pm at times.

And we did that for six weeks. And I think we were, it was negative margin because we were reserving and we weren't getting the special prices. you know, picking up the stock from the supplier warehouses, it ended up, I think, costing us, I estimate it to around 250 to $300,000. And I remember working 16 hours a day and I remember delivering toilet paper to all the stores Sunday, all day at loss, but I had more energy at the end of the day.

Because it felt so good. And so why is it most of the proudest moment? think after that, I can, we can look in the mirror and say, look, you know, you always, everyone, can talk about it, but when the time comes, how did you react? And I think that was, I'm so grateful that I made that call because if, if, if I didn't, I would be regretting. And I think that would have eaten me from the inside out for life that you just talk, you don't act when matters, you know. Yeah, so that was, yeah, so that's the, again, the community part was the proudest moment. That's probably the biggest, actually. And then the other proud moment is just creating opportunities, learning and growing.

Caroline Kennedy (33:58.776)
Yeah, yeah. And I love how your proudest moment is about helping others. A lot of the time when I have these conversations with people is very much about success in business. And you genuinely care about your impact and serving others first and foremost. And that builds trust that is unbreakable as well in terms of your customers, because you're being customer centric, you're putting the customer at the heart of everything that you do. But not just at a superficial level, it's more than it goes beyond that. puts, there's an element of risk for you in business and even doing that. But because giving back is such a critical value of yours and how you operate.

The risk is irrelevant, right? And it's a true testament to the person that you are. And I just want to recognise that.

Narinder Singh (35:03.73)
Thank you. I think we always say that we are not in a food business serving people, but we are in people business serving food.

Caroline Kennedy (35:12.854)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And you mentioned before about learning and developing. and you also said to about over the years, mentors and at different levels, different mentors. So what do you think if you were to look back on your journey? What are those levels where you kept leveling up and what did you get from each of those mentors as well?

Narinder Singh (35:40.432)
I think every mentor brought their own unique style of leadership coaching and mentoring and so forth. So I think it was just perfect. Every time I was ready for that new challenge and the teacher just appeared. It's like when I called you from, it was just perfect. And that's the level I needed, and I've learned many great things from you and I still apply, levelling up the whole human behaviour, the psychology. And then I became very, one of the things I've learned, only learners rules the world because whatever problem that you are facing, can only be solved through new learnings. You can't solve them with the thinking that created it, you know? And so you just have to learn and you're just going through learning.

Caroline Kennedy (36:41.538)
Yeah, yeah. And and though I think you're like a sponge, right? And I think that's why you continue to level up. It was one of the things that was very evident for me from when we were together in the beginning is that you just got concepts really quickly. Particularly, think for you, my memory is you as a leader, you know, and going from being individual, even though you had a broad team, the individual who was the director to the orchestrator of that team and helping that team to level up in terms of their critical thinking, in terms of their ideas, in terms of their, you know, the strategic thinking that they also brought to the table as well. And I know that you adapted really quickly in being able to ask questions with accountability and just being curious about your team and their thinking and what ideas they have and then structuring that so that it was really focused as well.

And you did that very quickly. just sponge, adopt, and then you implement it. Yeah. Yeah.

Narinder Singh (38:05.721)
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think through my Gallup Strength Finder, learner is the number one strength. And I think I would put down a lot of things down to my learning effort and the time I invest. I didn't go to school. I finished when I was like 13. didn't really go to school. I think I study more than most students study today.

Caroline Kennedy (38:32.994)
Yep, yep, and I would agree with that.

Narinder Singh (38:34.844)
And, you know, easily 15 hours a week I invest in studying, whether it is, you know, about a business, technologies, leadership, personal development, in, you know, metaphysics and, just, I think it's helping. And I highly recommend that everyone should become a lifelong learner.

Caroline Kennedy (38:59.692)
Yeah, Lifelong learner and practitioner as well. I always add that little bit on the end.

Narinder Singh (39:04.822)
Practise, yeah, yeah, yeah, practise mate. Applying, action is where the benefits are, correct?

Caroline Kennedy (39:09.22)
Yeah. Yeah, because what I've come to realise we can know something that doesn't mean we actually apply it. And so yeah, that's the critical part. But you definitely apply. You learn and you apply and you do it very quickly. And I want to go back to as we start to wrap up innovation because you are an innovator. You love looking at future fit you love looking at what's out there when it be from a technology perspective to bring into the stores you think differently and I want to share that with our listeners because I think that's It is a critical element to remaining relevant and we used to talk about that a bit. So how do you like stay innovative? How do you stay ahead of the game? What drives you and can you give some examples to the listeners of what you've done too?

Narinder Singh (40:10.232)
Yeah, so look, I'll just be myself and I'll just speak. And I think that one of the things that drives me, because I think that the growth comes from doing new things. Everything is bound to become outdated. And so if we are not innovating, thinking out 12 months or 24 months and longer out, then we become complacent and before you know that your product and services are no longer delivering your purpose. And so going back to Innovative, and we had two stores, we moved to three stores, let me just share a story. And we were talking to our point of sale system company, and then they said, I look, we don't recommend a group controller until you have five stores. And I said, but we're going to have 50. So it's a long term vision thing. And I need the group controller. And they were like working very hard because they felt like I'm going to be complaining about all the issues that are to come up as a result. But I could only see opportunities. And it was so true, I won't go too much into. So we ended up doing a group controller. In 2013, we negotiated an enterprise agreement and my HR consultant at the time, was like, no, this is overkill for your type small business. This is like large enterprises have enterprise agreements and I said, well, we're going to be large, so we may as well do it now. So we implemented it I think five years later he was telling me that that was the best decision ever.

So every step of the way, always thinking ahead, Power BI, and I know even today, to my surprise sometimes, a lot of organisations still don't have a Power BI business intelligence tool to analyse their data and everything. And we introduced that back in 2016. Almost at the same time actually Woolworths did.

And so that was good. ChatGPT, this whole AI explosion, we were the first one to, back in December 2022, I had stuff using ChatGPT and get used to it. And then we got the paid versions when they came out. So along the way, whether it was bringing in a robot RPA, the robot auto automation process, that was introduced before COVID. So whatever, I always look to technology to solve problems. And because I think it's in the long run, it'll be cheaper and more efficient. creates, yeah, increases productivity.

Caroline Kennedy (43:01.784)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I agree. And I think for you, you are definitely always looking for innovation. How can we do things differently? What tools are out there to help us become more efficient? Yeah, and they're great examples. And the other thing I want to come back to is the data. And we used to talk about the data tells you a story, right? And so what is the data telling you and being able to use something like Power BI and to not just see it for the numbers, but see the story that it's also telling you is really critical for business success. Yeah. Yeah.

Narinder Singh (43:39.42)
No, definitely. And look, think, yeah, embrace the AI revolution.

Caroline Kennedy (43:47.67)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you've got no choice anyway. Otherwise you're going to be left behind,

Narinder Singh (43:50.13)
I know, but that's what happens to people who don't embrace. They do get left behind. And so embrace it. You don't have a choice. did right.

Caroline Kennedy (44:01.036)
Yeah, yeah. So last question as we wrap up for any entrepreneurs out there that are feeling stuck or overwhelmed. What's the one lesson from your journey that you could help them unlock their next level of growth?

Narinder Singh (44:19.994)
I'm not sure if my answer will be correct, but I think when we're trying to do too much, we become overwhelmed or trying to achieve too much or overnight success. I think that causes us to get our mind racing. So I think I highly recommend to start meditating. It's very important, which I do daily. And I think about what your goal is and know, plan it ahead and do little milestones so you don't become overwhelmed by thinking you've to do this much today. No, you can only do today's work. Just make sure you get today's work done and then move on to tomorrow's work. Don't try to do tomorrow's work today. And I think just break it down and plan it and so you don't become overwhelmed. And I think that's for me, yeah.

And I've been guilty of doing that. just want to do, you want to get done everything at once. It doesn't work. It only leads to problems and chaos, but I think, yeah, meditation is really good personal practice to calm your mind and bring clarity and really look after your mental health, physical health and spiritual health. They're not like, it's one organism. So you got to look after it to make sure that, yeah, and that would be my advice. It's a process, enjoy the process, don't try to do 20 years worth of work in one day.

Caroline Kennedy (46:04.036)
Yeah, enjoy the journey to write and I loved what you said about and that comes back to that planning, right? You know where your vision is for 2030 and then you're bringing it back to bite-sized pieces and you know exactly what you need to do to get there and then monitoring and measuring if that's, you know, moving along at the right speed and pace and are we hitting where we need to go? And if not, then deviate, know, but it's, it's definitely that bite size pieces. Yeah.

Narinder Singh (46:36.373)
look, I would close it off and remain open to just because you committed to something, be open to and willing to change because 50 store goal, for example, was when I started first set out was in 2007 and 2008. But over time, because there was no e commerce in mind, so then this e commerce, there's a marketplace platform, there's a manufacturing facility that other business so we created instead of 50 stores, we went, okay, well, $200 million turnover by 2030. So that was removed. So it's now the turnover because otherwise you become limited to only physical stores. But when e-commerce is booming, marketplace through Uber platform is huge for us now. And we're moving towards other avenues of growth, which does not require physical locations. So being able to just, yeah not being stuck.

Caroline Kennedy (47:35.618)
Yeah. And I really love that. And that just brought back a memory of when we did that strategic planning, that that's where you changed it. You're like, we need to look at the revenue level, not necessarily the store element, because there's so many opportunities out there. And your mind is always thinking differently about where are the opportunities? What are people doing? Where are the consumer buying patterns? And how? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Narinder Singh (47:59.039)
Yeah, so we've gone from a brick and mortar store to thinking omni-channel strategy. Yeah, that's the big shift. Being able to adapt, adaptability is important.

Caroline Kennedy (48:05.89)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I have no doubt that you will continue to adapt and you'll continue to look at what your business model looks like and enter into different business models as well. So thank you so much for sharing your journey with us today. I really appreciate it and for taking the time. And I'm sure that our listeners will.

Get a lot out of your story and particularly your resilience and yeah, and your successes and your lessons too. So thanks, Narendra. I really appreciate it.

Narinder Singh (48:46.634)
Thank you very much. I think you asked me great questions and just for your listeners I just like to say that the reason I wanted to share this story it is that for that very reason that I hope somebody will listen to this and go yep if he can do it I can do it and and I think we can all do it you just got to make that decision and go after

Caroline Kennedy (49:12.098)
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Narinder Singh (49:13.298)
And you know, I'm also in my big mode. We can, I think one of the things, we can have anything, but you can't have everything. I think we need to make a decision. What is actually that you want? And once you decide, you can have it. But the problem, I think we keep changing our mind what we want.

Narinder Singh (49:32.81)
It's just make a decision. You can have anything, but you can't have everything.

Caroline Kennedy (49:36.376)
Yeah, I love that piece of advice. Thank you. Thanks for sharing.

Narinder Singh (49:39.869)
Alright, well thank you Caroline. You have contributed to my growth, know, through your coaching and mentoring and I'm very grateful for, yeah, and thank you for having me.

Caroline Kennedy (49:50.616)
Yeah, thank you and thanks for saying that. I appreciate it.